I wonder. I wonder how peaceful or bloody it will be. 

Gates is playing a very dangerous game. Prince Charles is playing a very dangerous game. Telling us "You'll own nothing, and be happy, you'll rent, and it will be delivered by drone, you'll eat meat less frequently, a special treat..." 

I'm thinking, 

"You'll watch in horror as the gated walls around your house are breached, your wife and children are dragged out onto your circular driveway, made to kneel by your Bentley and and McClaren - you'll try to look away as someone grabs you by your hair and forces you to watch, as another person reads the charges against your family - treason against your nation, tyranny against your fellow citizens, complicity in the erosion of liberties and constitutional protections. Then you'll go numb as your screaming family is executed as you watch, their limp bodies dropped onto the fine imported cobblestone of your driveway. But you won't have to live long with the agony of your loss - you'll follow them shortly." 

That is the version of The Great Reset these petty despots are more likely to encounter than their vision of the future. 

Wed Feb 24 2021 14:41:33 MST from Wangiss

PD: "But, maybe there is NO better time than right now and the rewards will go to those who are willing to take on the risk of moving forward with that. "

Michael Malice is cashing in on the timing enormously right now. He's writing a book called The White Pill about how the establishment is scrambling like they haven't had to since the 60s and we have every reason to believe the best future will grow out of its gigantic corpse. I'm very much looking forward to it. He uses the term "The Cathedral" to refer to the government-media complex. Eric Weinstein refers to their narrative as the GIN: Gated Institutional Narrative. There are a lot of rule breakers on the left, right, and dangling far below the political compass test. You do have to look for them, but they're all talking with each other more and more.

 

TheDave: I've already had decent success in convincing people I know to become anarchists.

Can confirm. I may be among that number. I've heard and experienced that the difference between a minarchist and an anarchist is six months. It's usually a joke. In my case it was only a poor estimate. I guess it took three years. Amusingly, I'm actually TOO open-minded to have settled on it, wanting to explore more options.

 

PD: "They've got people in the field *admitting* that they *lied* for what they believed was the greater social good, in that article."

My county finally stopped recycling glass. For decades people were lied to that recycling glass is a good idea. It's ALWAYS been a net environmental cost. But orthodoxists kept the myth going because stopping it would allow people to question the other categories. They worked against their own stated aims to gain more control over the brainwashed. That reveals their revealed preference: control of people rather than saving the world (even in their own mind). The food pyramid is another such farce among hundreds. The narratives all will collapse.

The internet is an enormous part of this process. Controlling three networks made manipulation a cinch when we were kids. Then the web happened and the Drudge Report showed one person could make a difference. The overclass heaved an enormous sigh of relief when Facebook started consolidating again, but they've overplayed their hand and the market is fracturing again.

There are billions of people sharing their open diaries. Diaries full of naked emperors. The truth will out.

Wed Feb 24 2021 19:45:00 MST from ParanoidDelusions

I wonder. I wonder how peaceful or bloody it will be. 

Gates is playing a very dangerous game. Prince Charles is playing a very dangerous game. Telling us "You'll own nothing, and be happy, you'll rent, and it will be delivered by drone, you'll eat meat less frequently, a special treat..." 

I'm thinking, 

"You'll watch in horror as the gated walls around your house are breached, your wife and children are dragged out onto your circular driveway, made to kneel by your Bentley and and McClaren - you'll try to look away as someone grabs you by your hair and forces you to watch, as another person reads the charges against your family - treason against your nation, tyranny against your fellow citizens, complicity in the erosion of liberties and constitutional protections. Then you'll go numb as your screaming family is executed as you watch, their limp bodies dropped onto the fine imported cobblestone of your driveway. But you won't have to live long with the agony of your loss - you'll follow them shortly." 

That is the version of The Great Reset these petty despots are more likely to encounter than their vision of the future. 

And the revolution will be livestreamed, and even peace-loving gradualists like me will cheer at the downfall of the enemy.  The harder they push for their tyranny the swifter their fall will come.  I'd prefer it didn't happen like that at all, personally, but I understand how these things work and they've forgotten.  CNN doesn't realize how close they are to the edge.

This. 100%. I don't want to see it go this direction either. But they're so sure they're on the edge of achieving it. They do not realize what they are flirting with. They only see the submissive, subservient, cowering segment of society. They do not hear the wolves growling among their lapdogs. 

Fri Feb 26 2021 04:21:23 MST from TheDave

 

And the revolution will be livestreamed, and even peace-loving gradualists like me will cheer at the downfall of the enemy.  The harder they push for their tyranny the swifter their fall will come.  I'd prefer it didn't happen like that at all, personally, but I understand how these things work and they've forgotten.  CNN doesn't realize how close they are to the edge.

I've got my popcorn ready, but I hope to stay out of the coming conflict. After all, ay at my age and condition, all I have left to offer is my voice. I'm just hoping that I survive it.

I got a out of a small city just before the BLM riots yielded their first local, unprovoked, shot-in-the-face death. Now I'm out here in a rural, unincorporated area on 1.2 acres hoping I'm far enough away. By now you see the protest marches have reached suburbs, but the houses out here are so far apart that the natural mathematics of human attention probably save me from even the most marginal antics of the collectivists.

The fact that millions are relocating away from dense population centers should be a healthy indication: Americans are still individualists. And the authoritarian collectivists in Californian cities, Detroit, New York, Seattle... they're running out of population numbers to dilute their toxic radiation. Once you have some X despots per n population, it's over. Methods won't matter. Political sides won't matter. People who insist they co-own each other reach a critical mass when they run out of people to soak up all their loose neutrons.

Spreading out is made possible largely by the internet. I'm less functionally distant in 2021 being 100 miles from Seattle than I was in 1992 only seven miles from downtown Sacramento. There's no such thing as a long-distance call now. I can get delivery from anywhere, not just select pizzerias. My Arduino sensor set got here in two days from who-knows-where instead of coming from Germany via catalog. (Not that they even existed in 1992.)

And the relevance of government per se in all of this is swiftly decreasing as technology outmodes its entire structure. They took years to regulate Uber in most places and years to regulate AirBnB if at all. The overclass is too slow and bulky, so they outsource their tyranny to the private sector. But censorious YouTube is increasingly for fuddy duddies like CNN. And the people who call Facebook and Twitter monopolies neither have their terminology straight nor their finger on the hummingbird pulse of the internet.

Tech makes us too agile to oppress.

Case in point: How many government offices were still using Windows 95 when they stopped supporting it? They don't stand a chance. 

When that shit was happening, Ducey - who takes a lot of shit, put a "corona curfew" on Arizona. Out here in the suburbs, it didn't stop us from doing what we wanted to do. But if you were in a white van full of hockey gear and Guy Fawkes masks with moltov cocktails and you tried to take the freeway out to the suburbs to cause shit (with a well armed, hair-triggered, and very agitated suburban population) - you got stopped at the offramp, searched, and quietly taken back downtown to be a guest of the State at least overnight.

I'm OK with that kind of government. Government that is doing *exactly* the job I'm paying them to do. I like living on an 8k square foot plot of land, asses-to-elbows with my neighbors, with world class healthcare 10 minutes away in every direction and enough fast-food within a 5 mile radius to keep me fat and happy until the 2nd coming. 

I'm not knocking YOUR choice - and it is the choice I *always* recommend for people like-minded to you. Get away from the people like US. I don't care if the cops were heavy handed with any Antifa assholes that tried to come out here and create chaos in the suburbs. We're multicultural, we represent diverse political and religious ideologies,  we represent a range of incomes, sexual preferences - whatever you care to name. And we all largely get along and are happy and content with our big screen TVs, our backyard cabanas and splash pools, and our near luxury German sports cars. 

Because in a State with a strong Stand your Ground and Castle Doctrine - if the cops don't stop the trouble makers before they get to my neighborhood - they'll have a much bigger mess to clean up before things are done. And it won't just be ME defending my property. They'll be caught in a crossfire hail from 6 or 7 houses on my quiet, idyllic cul-de-sac *alone*. AntiFa doesn't know what it is biting off threatening to bring the urban fight to the suburbs in *Phoenix*. 

Sun Mar 28 2021 13:57:32 MST from Wangiss

I got a out of a small city just before the BLM riots yielded their first local, unprovoked, shot-in-the-face death. Now I'm out here in a rural, unincorporated area on 1.2 acres hoping I'm far enough away. By now you see the protest marches have reached suburbs, but the houses out here are so far apart that the natural mathematics of human attention probably save me from even the most marginal antics of the collectivists.

The fact that millions are relocating away from dense population centers should be a healthy indication: Americans are still individualists. And the authoritarian collectivists in Californian cities, Detroit, New York, Seattle... they're running out of population numbers to dilute their toxic radiation. Once you have some X despots per n population, it's over. Methods won't matter. Political sides won't matter. People who insist they co-own each other reach a critical mass when they run out of people to soak up all their loose neutrons.

Spreading out is made possible largely by the internet. I'm less functionally distant in 2021 being 100 miles from Seattle than I was in 1992 only seven miles from downtown Sacramento. There's no such thing as a long-distance call now. I can get delivery from anywhere, not just select pizzerias. My Arduino sensor set got here in two days from who-knows-where instead of coming from Germany via catalog. (Not that they even existed in 1992.)

And the relevance of government per se in all of this is swiftly decreasing as technology outmodes its entire structure. They took years to regulate Uber in most places and years to regulate AirBnB if at all. The overclass is too slow and bulky, so they outsource their tyranny to the private sector. But censorious YouTube is increasingly for fuddy duddies like CNN. And the people who call Facebook and Twitter monopolies neither have their terminology straight nor their finger on the hummingbird pulse of the internet.

Tech makes us too agile to oppress.

Case in point: How many government offices were still using Windows 95 when they stopped supporting it? They don't stand a chance. 

"enough fast-food within a 5 mile radius to keep me fat and happy until the 2nd coming."

That made me chuckle for a solid 30 seconds.

My favorite anarchist, Michael Malice, loves to mention that New York isn't safe from Antifa mostly because you're not allowed to keep yourself safe. Well, it looks like he's moving to Texas. His friends will teach him to drive, introduce him to the locals, and get him a nice place for 1/4 the rent. Because they've all already moved there.

However much the progressives try to pretend away the real necessities addressed in the Constitution, the truth keeps roaring back. People will obviously kill you to protect themselves.

And now we're 3D printing better and better guns. And it's only accelerating. 

I keep trying to respond to this - and ultimately, it comes down to the issues being complex. There are so many factors in play. Clearly, the far Left believes they have a strategic advantage and they're pressing it. 

Sun Mar 28 2021 22:09:01 MST from Wangiss

"enough fast-food within a 5 mile radius to keep me fat and happy until the 2nd coming."

 

That made me chuckle for a solid 30 seconds.

My favorite anarchist, Michael Malice, loves to mention that New York isn't safe from Antifa mostly because you're not allowed to keep yourself safe. Well, it looks like he's moving to Texas. His friends will teach him to drive, introduce him to the locals, and get him a nice place for 1/4 the rent. Because they've all already moved there.

However much the progressives try to pretend away the real necessities addressed in the Constitution, the truth keeps roaring back. People will obviously kill you to protect themselves.

And now we're 3D printing better and better guns. And it's only accelerating. 

Gee! I begin to see why Zuckerberg doesn't want people to come here! They might just learn how to be self-sufficient and to be able to take care of themselves!

Interesting concept - I'd never thought about how the left demonizes and vilifies self-sufficiency and independence as traits of "preppers and far right extremists," but they absolutely do, and the public largely accepts that narrative. 

They really crave dependency. 

Thu Apr 01 2021 13:55:57 MST from "Jerry Moore" <jerry_moore@secure.wallofhate.com>

Gee! I begin to see why Zuckerberg doesn't want people to come here! They might just learn how to be self-sufficient and to be able to take care of themselves!

Collectivists do that on the right and the left. Rightie religionists used to make plebs dependent on the clergy for theology. Rightie authoritarians don't seem to mind collectivizing things once they're normalized like social security and Medicare even though there's no constitutional authority for these Great Society programs. No one is fighting to end them except Libertarians.

Individualists are the only people, left, right, or center, who really push for decentralization in all facets of life.

Magically, the first individualist nation was also the first one to break out of massive poverty. And the most collectivist regions within it are slipping back into poverty as quickly as they can.

Information technology teaches the value of redundancy and decentralization. Individualism is just good data management. 

Oh, I agree with you in theory. The problem is, the Right extreme is far smaller, far less influential, and far less dangerous of a threat. Rightie authoritarians are a limited number of the Right and they're largely disempowered. Also, don't mistake Rightie Authoritarians for Bush Clan elitist globalists. There is no Left or Right there - just wealth and political control. Obama and the Clintons are not far Left authoritarians either - they're part of this middle group - and they're far more dangerous than either the Far Right or the Far Left. In fact - these united centrist globalists manipulate the extreme right and extreme left to fight against one another for their own gain - and the risk is that they may lose control of their own mobilized forces. The extremists of the Right make isolated big hits... a mass shooting, bombing a federal building. The extremist Left disrupt for months on end, costing billions of dollars of economic damage. 

Most people on the Right tend libertarian. They DGAF what you smoke, drink, who you screw, where you pray - and they don't want to give anybody else ANY of the money they worked for. They tend to accept that a little social welfare is necessary - if merely to keep the discontent content-enough that they don't act out on their dissatisfaction with the unpleasant results of their own lack of personal unaccountability for their position in society. They tend to believe that the Government's role is to facilitate the health and wellness of the economy and the safety of the nation from outside threats - and not much else. That is the primary difference between Libertarians and the Right. Not the Right tends toward more authoritarian views - but that the Right recognizes the social contract and that society is not actually capable of completely self-governing. They embrace the minimal amount of authority necessary. Allowing the fleet to move at full speed, and doing whatever is necessary to help the slowest ships keep up. The Left believes in slowing down the whole fleet solely for the sake of the slowest ships. Libertarians believe that everyone in the fleet should move at whatever speed they want, in whatever direction they want, and that collisions and lost vessels and disruption and chaos won't result because each boat will naturally do what is best for itself, and thus what is best for all the others. Libertarians are the Polish navy. ;) 

Fri Apr 02 2021 00:35:57 MST from "Wangiss" <wangiss@wallofhate.com>

Collectivists do that on the right and the left. Rightie religionists used to make plebs dependent on the clergy for theology. Rightie authoritarians don't seem to mind collectivizing things once they're normalized like social security and Medicare even though there's no constitutional authority for these Great Society programs. No one is fighting to end them except Libertarians.

Individualists are the only people, left, right, or center, who really push for decentralization in all facets of life.

Magically, the first individualist nation was also the first one to break out of massive poverty. And the most collectivist regions within it are slipping back into poverty as quickly as they can.

Information technology teaches the value of redundancy and decentralization. Individualism is just good data management. 

Can you imagine a world where Intersectional Race Theory, Critical Race Theory, Gender Theory - were regarded as much of a lunatic fringe and Far Right Christian Fundamentalism? Where anyone arguing that solely straight white males cannot understand what it is like to be a woman, or black - and that arguing against that proves it is true, was shot down as quickly as anyone using circular logic as evidence for their faith in God? 

The extreme Right, empowered - might be as authoritarian as the far Left - but the extreme Right suffers from exaggerated impotency, whereas the far Left is lethally potent and empowered. 

Everything you say about the right and the left is quite accurate in 2021. Right now we're in the end of a leftward trend. These things cycle in and out. After FDR, who was the American apex of progressivism (with the previous peak being Wilson), we had a huge rightward move for twenty years. We had the Mad Men 60s with wealth, equality, patriotic excitement, and the most right-leaning Democrat president ever, JFK. Then America moved left again in the 70s but got BTFO'd by Reagan who won a third term for the Republicans by being super right-wing in a good way. But authoritarianism was definitely going on under Reagan. It's just that it brings with it wealth, equality, and a comforting sense of belonging, and that makes it worth it to centrists and righties in approximately the same way "progress" towards randomly shifting targets comforts lefties. Right now they're getting their jollies with excitement over segregation, of all things.

Brownian motion is the unpredictable movement of, for example, water molecules in a cup. They bump into each other and move suddenly in a different direction. There are too many factors governing their motion to ever predict the position of a given molecule in the future. That's how progressivism looks to me. Illegal immigration went from bad (a la Bernie Sanders) to good as soon as Trump tried to stop it. Segregation, which was settled political science for half a century, became de rigeur as soon as some academic paper got published. It's change for change's sake. It's idiotic. And that's what makes me "conservative" in the sense that's accurate--what puts me in the "slightly right anarchist" sub-quadrant of the political compass.

Also, I'm not in a fleet. I won't be dying for someone else's cause. If I'm in a cluster of ships I'll be communicating with them by radio like a sensible person. I'll probably be with the orderly conservative fleet instead of the progressive flock of Brownian starlings that move suddenly North into an electric subdivision because someone had a shiny, fresh thought. 

Individualism has a hard time opposing collectivism - because individualists have more difficulty aligning themselves with one another. How many far right followers do I have on Facebook - who always claim how much they miss me when I'm gone - who haven't shown up here, once? Whatever their reasons - the fact remains - they're thinking independently and on self motivated terms - not from the idea that we have to embrace a certain *kind* of collectivism to be able to fight the collectivists. Frankly, I saw this in ethnicity growing up in inner-city schools. One ethnic group, if you got in a fight with one guy, you were in a fight with ALL his friends. The other ethnic group, if you got in a fight with one guy, all his friends went, "this is between you two, and not us..." and stood around and watched. There is probably some r/k selection reason for that. 

There *were* problems with Reagan and authoritarian tendencies. The Moral Right was enjoying a big wave and feeling very empowered. I didn't care for that. 

Fri Apr 02 2021 10:31:25 MST from "Wangiss" <wangiss@wallofhate.com>

Everything you say about the right and the left is quite accurate in 2021. Right now we're in the end of a leftward trend. These things cycle in and out. After FDR, who was the American apex of progressivism (with the previous peak being Wilson), we had a huge rightward move for twenty years. We had the Mad Men 60s with wealth, equality, patriotic excitement, and the most right-leaning Democrat president ever, JFK. Then America moved left again in the 70s but got BTFO'd by Reagan who won a third term for the Republicans by being super right-wing in a good way. But authoritarianism was definitely going on under Reagan. It's just that it brings with it wealth, equality, and a comforting sense of belonging, and that makes it worth it to centrists and righties in approximately the same way "progress" towards randomly shifting targets comforts lefties. Right now they're getting their jollies with excitement over segregation, of all things.

Brownian motion is the unpredictable movement of, for example, water molecules in a cup. They bump into each other and move suddenly in a different direction. There are too many factors governing their motion to ever predict the position of a given molecule in the future. That's how progressivism looks to me. Illegal immigration went from bad (a la Bernie Sanders) to good as soon as Trump tried to stop it. Segregation, which was settled political science for half a century, became de rigeur as soon as some academic paper got published. It's change for change's sake. It's idiotic. And that's what makes me "conservative" in the sense that's accurate--what puts me in the "slightly right anarchist" sub-quadrant of the political compass.

Also, I'm not in a fleet. I won't be dying for someone else's cause. If I'm in a cluster of ships I'll be communicating with them by radio like a sensible person. I'll probably be with the orderly conservative fleet instead of the progressive flock of Brownian starlings that move suddenly North into an electric subdivision because someone had a shiny, fresh thought. 

I love this BBS! It won't give me my Dresden Files fan fix, or my shot of Terry Pratchett insight and humor, or all the interesting articles about Space and rockets and Elon Musk, who may be the only decent one of the big Tech giants, but it's giving me the great pleasure of a serious political discussion in the information Technology room! How very Citadel! After I get this Amazon Fire tablet replaced with a decent Microsoft one I might try to join in, instead of just lurking. I won't be leaving FaceBook behind soon, since they are my connection to old friends and family members, who aren't very tech savvy, and aren't likely to come here anytime soon, but I've been stifled in that increasingly tightening environment, politically. I started there, about a dozen years ago, encouraged by my daughter, to help her play FarmVille. I tend to be a fanatic at everything I get into, and I ended up running three farms of my own and taking over my daughter's farm and her husband's farm as well for a little over a year, before I burned out, harvested all my crops one last time, and left FarmVille behind. I also stopped logging into FaceBook for about a year, until my daughter told me that a bunch of my old Sacramento Citadel BBS friends were starting a group on Facebook to talk about the good old days, when we called dialup BBSs, and started our. I couldn't pass that up, and I went back to FaceBook. By the time that the 'new' of reminiscing over our past had worn off, I had found fan groups for many of my interests, as listed above, and felt like a life member. Unfortunately, politics got in the way. I was liberal, in my youth - loved Jack Kennedy as President, and would have voted for him if I'd been old enough, but you had to be twenty-one to vote, back in the sixties, and I didn't reach that age until 1968. After Kennedy's assassination, I watched Lyndon Johnson do the worst job of being President I'd ever seen, and because disillusioned with politics and the Democrat party, although I wasn't happy with the overly religious Republican party, and all the Libertarians I knew were assholes - all theory and no real experience. I was patriotic because I loved this huge country that I had been accidentally born in, and I had traveled across it and back , seen places like Niagra Falls and mount Rushmore, not to mention Lake Tahoe and Crater Lake, on this side of the country. I rode my motorcycle all over the west, and eventually passed through sports cars to a pickup truck, and just loved the land I was born in. I studied some History, learned some Critical Thinking skills, not only in School, but from my grandparents on my mother's side, who were both first generation German immigrants (In spite of the fact that my grandmother had been born in San Francisco harbour, to Germans who were vacationing here, and who returned a dozen years later, fleeing their native country. My grandmother lived through the1907 San Francisco earthquake, that destroyed her family's restaurant business, and grew up to marry a German immigrant who came to America because things were so bad in Germany. I have deeper roots on my father's side of the family. His parents were German Irish, and had been here since colonial days. I loved America, not only for its beautiful attractions, but also for its great form of government, that offered freedom to those who were willing to work for it. I had Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and although I wasn't religious, I was grateful for what this country had to offer. Politically, I was libertarian, but my early experience with Libertarians who acted smugly superior and thought that they had better ways to run the country than anyone else, had turned me off from the party. As a young person, I marched for freedom of speech, and experienced tear gas in Berkeley, and lobbied in Sacramento for Motorcycle riders rights. I stayed in the Democrat party for many years, although I was voting fairly consistently Republican. Listened to Rush Limbaugh, back in his early days, and thought that he was a bit of a crackpot, although I liked his political point of view. Anyway, that's my background, and now I'm a seventy-four year old paraplegic who doesn't get out much, but still likes to discuss politics and history. I hope you don't mind if I join your conversations.

Delighted to have you aboard! 

I'm doing all I can to make sure we get more of it here, Jerry. I like your contributions to the BBS. It is too bad that all the other Citadelphians seem divided and burned out on this experience, which is far more pure to me than anything that takes place on Hatebook. 

Sun Apr 04 2021 03:14:02 MST from "Jerry Moore" <jerry_moore@secure.wallofhate.com>

 Anyway, that's my background, and now I'm a seventy-four year old paraplegic who doesn't get out much, but still likes to discuss politics and history. I hope you don't mind if I join your conversations.

Yeah, I had forgotten just how slow a Citadel board can be for intelligent conversations. Facebook's advantage is the huge number of users in any group. This means that you almost always have multiple responses to deal with, and the discussion seems to have more body. Citadelphia was great, when it was new, and we didn't have to compete with the internet. Now, it just seems slow. I'll keep trying to bring new users in, and if we can get up to critical mass, maybe it'll seem faster.