Somewhere around here I have an actually archive of Pagan's *actual* bulletins and short stories. If I can find it, I'll upload it. If any of you have any related documents or files, feel free to upload them here. 

I used to have a bunch of those kind of files around here.  I have not looked for them in a while, so no idea where they could be and with 80 TB have data (yes I am a digital hoarder too) on my main workstation, it would be a job to try and find them.  But, that being said, I will try and take a quick peak and see what I can dig up.

Fri Nov 20 2020 22:59:07 MST from Otto Roboto

I used to have a bunch of those kind of files around here.  I have not looked for them in a while, so no idea where they could be and with 80 TB have data (yes I am a digital hoarder too) on my main workstation, it would be a job to try and find them.  But, that being said, I will try and take a quick peak and see what I can dig up.

If you can find any of it, upload away. No ZModem necessary. 

I just ran across that archive recently, and spent an evening reading through it until it got too esoteric for me and I didn't understand any of the references - must have been after I had opted out of Citadelphia. But I just stumbled across it by accident, and I know it is there somewhere among my collection of old digital docs. 

I just have to find it. 

Fri Nov 20 2020 23:50:00 MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

 

 

If you can find any of it, upload away. No ZModem necessary. 

I just ran across that archive recently, and spent an evening reading through it until it got too esoteric for me and I didn't understand any of the references - must have been after I had opted out of Citadelphia. But I just stumbled across it by accident, and I know it is there somewhere among my collection of old digital docs. 

I just have to find it. 

 

This is where I think Linux command line GREP searches would be excellent, if I understood more about how to Grep. 

Fri Nov 20 2020 11:50:54 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

Fri Nov 20 2020 23:50:00 MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

 

 

If you can find any of it, upload away. No ZModem necessary. 

I just ran across that archive recently, and spent an evening reading through it until it got too esoteric for me and I didn't understand any of the references - must have been after I had opted out of Citadelphia. But I just stumbled across it by accident, and I know it is there somewhere among my collection of old digital docs. 

I just have to find it. 

 

This is where I think Linux command line GREP searches would be excellent, if I understood more about how to Grep. 

 

Oh, the grep part of the process is easy, just pipe it to grep;  "| grep Pagan"   The hard part is the damned find command itself. The syntax options for that part are the challenging thing to conquer.  I have all my old BBS files (what I still have) either on my windows HD, or on them old 5.25 and 3.5 floppies that may or may not be readable anymore.

Sat Nov 21 2020 10:05:43 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Fri Nov 20 2020 11:50:54 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

Fri Nov 20 2020 23:50:00 MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

Oh, the grep part of the process is easy, just pipe it to grep;  "| grep Pagan"   The hard part is the damned find command itself. The syntax options for that part are the challenging thing to conquer.  I have all my old BBS files (what I still have) either on my windows HD, or on them old 5.25 and 3.5 floppies that may or may not be readable anymore.

Yeah, find is one of those unnecessarily complex and exoteric Linux shell commands that make you really appreciate how much Microsoft and Apple did to make the user experience accessible to, you know, users. I can put together a find statement - but I need a reference manual every time. 

The problem is, to use Linux find and grep on my NAS, I'd have to mount a SMB NAS share from my NAS to a Linux box - and now we're talking about even more commands I don't quite remember but remember aren't very transparent to get working right. :) 

And therein lies the source of my procrastination. But - if I went through all this effort, I am sure Linux, find, and grep would point me right to the document folder I've misplaced. 

Sat Nov 21 2020 02:01:29 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

Sat Nov 21 2020 10:05:43 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Fri Nov 20 2020 11:50:54 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

Fri Nov 20 2020 23:50:00 MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

Oh, the grep part of the process is easy, just pipe it to grep;  "| grep Pagan"   The hard part is the damned find command itself. The syntax options for that part are the challenging thing to conquer.  I have all my old BBS files (what I still have) either on my windows HD, or on them old 5.25 and 3.5 floppies that may or may not be readable anymore.

Yeah, find is one of those unnecessarily complex and exoteric Linux shell commands that make you really appreciate how much Microsoft and Apple did to make the user experience accessible to, you know, users. I can put together a find statement - but I need a reference manual every time. 

The problem is, to use Linux find and grep on my NAS, I'd have to mount a SMB NAS share from my NAS to a Linux box - and now we're talking about even more commands I don't quite remember but remember aren't very transparent to get working right. :) 

And therein lies the source of my procrastination. But - if I went through all this effort, I am sure Linux, find, and grep would point me right to the document folder I've misplaced. 

Well, if you already have it on an SMB NAS, then just connect to it from your windows box and use their search ability.  It scans inside documents too.  Then you don't have to worry about the Linux commands at all.  ;)

Sun Nov 22 2020 11:31:07 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Well, if you already have it on an SMB NAS, then just connect to it from your windows box and use their search ability.  It scans inside documents too.  Then you don't have to worry about the Linux commands at all.  ;)

 

 

I didn't know Windows search scanned inside documents. I have tried searching that way, and didn't come up with anything. I'm suspecting that it is on an external drive or one of the other 5 or 6 systems I have lying around here - possibly on the Mac G4 quicksilver. I need to power that one up and have a look. 

Sun Nov 22 2020 02:15:11 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

Sun Nov 22 2020 11:31:07 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Well, if you already have it on an SMB NAS, then just connect to it from your windows box and use their search ability.  It scans inside documents too.  Then you don't have to worry about the Linux commands at all.  ;)

 

 

I didn't know Windows search scanned inside documents. I have tried searching that way, and didn't come up with anything. I'm suspecting that it is on an external drive or one of the other 5 or 6 systems I have lying around here - possibly on the Mac G4 quicksilver. I need to power that one up and have a look. 

 

Here, try reading this link:

https://www.howtogeek.com/99406/how-to-search-for-text-inside-of-any-file-using-windows-search/

Mon Nov 23 2020 18:41:34 MST from Otto Roboto

Here, try reading this link:

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/99406/how-to-search-for-text-inside-of-any-file-using-windows-search/

 

Checking it out right now. 

It looks almost as complicated as the *nix Find command to set up! :D 

Mon Nov 23 2020 07:33:30 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

 

Mon Nov 23 2020 18:41:34 MST from Otto Roboto

Here, try reading this link:

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/99406/how-to-search-for-text-inside-of-any-file-using-windows-search/

 

Checking it out right now. 

It looks almost as complicated as the *nix Find command to set up! :D 

 

But it is GUI driven.  lol

Wed Nov 25 2020 16:44:22 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Checking it out right now. 

It looks almost as complicated as the *nix Find command to set up! :D 

 

But it is GUI driven.  lol

Leave it to Microsoft to make a GUI driven thing as complicated as a CLI driven thing. :) 

Still looking for this damn file. 

The problem is, I've got a 12TB NAS, I've got a 10TB USB backup drive, I've got 5 other external drives 5.25", all a minimum of 1TB - I've got 2 3" external drives, a 2TB and a 4TB... I've got 6 PCs it could be on... 

And I think the name is "the collected works of Pagan Flames"... but I could be wrong... 

But I know that the word "pagan" appears all over and in the document. 

I've got a literal mountain of storage and a single grain of sand somewhere on it that I'm trying to find. 

The worst thing is, recently I stumbled on the file - and thought, "Once I get everything set up, I'll come back here and grab it and put it on the Citadel. That will be nice for all the Citadelphians to have a trip down memory lane". 

But, I can't find it. 

Something wrong with file directory permissions. Frickin' Linux. 

The thing that is driving me nuts is that I just saw this file, and can't for the life of me remember where it was. 

Thu Dec 24 2020 02:52:32 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

The thing that is driving me nuts is that I just saw this file, and can't for the life of me remember where it was. 

 

Sorry Donnie, they say memory is the second thing to go.   ;)

Evidently, they know what they're talking about! :D :D :D 

Thu Dec 24 2020 17:55:36 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Thu Dec 24 2020 02:52:32 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

The thing that is driving me nuts is that I just saw this file, and can't for the life of me remember where it was. 

 

Sorry Donnie, they say memory is the second thing to go.   ;)

A place marker until I get a chance to fix the file permissions on directories.

BPF.TXT (text/plain, 80184 bytes) [View| Download]

More of THE BEST OF FLAMES Messages and exchanges from DDBBS
=============================================================================


85Dec27 from PAGAN FLAMES
My criterion for a bbs:

1) Multiple message bases which will randomly allow access to selected
users.
2) Automatic carrier drop if the user has a name like Snuggles, Smurf, or
says RAD in any message.
3) Random passwords are deleted without warning.
4) BBS crashes when random user is writing very long message. Resets self
later but drops carrier of same user for the next 48 hours.
5) Has userlog in download section (disquised a pirated game.) Upload
section does not capture, but actually pours it into ram until next random
crash.
6) Letters in random handles are periodically scrambled.
7) User numbers are periodically reassigned without notice.
8) The menu does not tell all commands available, but displays random
commands each logon.
9) Passwords are periodically scrambled to prevent password crashing
10) BBS line has call waiting so you never get a busy signal.
11) Program only prints 255 character lines, plus a variety of special ascii
characters.
12) Carrier is dropped if user tries to play a game.
13) User time limits may be cut to 1 minute without notice.

85Dec27 from optimus prime
that sounds great, well, get ready Sacramento, 'cause Pagan's going to start
a BBS.

...

85Dec28 from Louis Zeppa
Vince, let's keep the room and throw Pagan's messages out. That should drive
him crazy.

Pagan, if you are still interested in philosophical type questions, Walter
Kaufmann's _Critique of Religion and Philosophy_ is very interesting and very
readable.

...

nor> 1 messages 1 new

85Dec28 from Louis Zeppa
This room is especially for Pagan who in a few days won't be able to figure
out what it is a response too. But then neither will I since its name and the
room it's named for will certainly be renamed by tomorrow. Does anyone have a
map to this place? Or a program?


85Dec29 from PAGAN FLAMES
THE 24TH???!!! AW HELL!! I don't know what's going on the 24th but I just
know it's just going to be one AWFUL DAY!!! YOU KNEW I THAT WOULD BE AN AWFUL
DAY FOR ME, DIDN'T YOU???
Uh, huh. Well, there's an easy way to tell, if the date is a number less
than 32, then it's an awful day.

Garbage. Wouldn't you know?

...

85Dec30 from TEEK
Pagan is femail???

85Dec30 from Louis Zeppa
Actually, yes. Paganistic religions tend to worship female deities -- the
great mother, mother earth, trees, etc. Pagan's choice of name is probably a
subconcsious wish to escape the patriarchal system that oppresses his softer,
less aggressive nature. Of course, since he has been socialized by the
aggressive, nastiness that characterizes our western culture, he is very
confused and so acts out that confusion with his aggressive and nasty multiple
personalities.

85Dec30 from 'lil' alice
actually no, Pegan is little more than a masochistic voodoo doll, he love to
have someone stick pins in him, to set him in motion.
wiggle,jiggle
'lil' alice

...

85Dec31 from PAGAN FLAMES
Bulletins? Death before reading the bulletings.

...

85Dec31 from TEEK
I think you should all apologise to pagan.Hes just a dope .

85Dec31 from Vince Seifert

And what does that make YOU?

Z A P *spung*!

...

86Jan03 from TREASON
'lil' a: that makes two of us.
pegan: guy, you certainly are predictable. destroy, nuke, bomb, burn, raze,
rip, shred. Can't think of anymore right off hand. You been to a shrink
lately. I'm not complaining. yuor'e alright the way you are. Just glad they
keep you in a cage.

86Jan03 from PAGAN FLAMES
Why in the hell does everyone ask me if I'm in analysis??? There's nothing
wrong with me. Now the rest of you....

86Jan03 from Gary Meadows
Now, you know why we ask...

...

86Jan10 from PAGAN FLAMES
She's talking plastic gadgets, for those of you who don't subscribe to the
PAGAN NEWS and pervert report.

...

INFERNO>

86Jan17 from Louis Zeppa
Pagan,

BBSland has changed and you haven't. You want a place where you can be
humorous, witty, nasty, friendly, unserious without consequences and danger.
You want family like "Father Knows Best" or the "Waltons" where when you are
foolish or stupid, everyone rallies to your side, but where you can say
whatever you want and no one takes it too personally. I think Jerry struggles
to maintain that quality here on DDBBS and that makes DDBBS a nice refuge, but
it is not the only style.
Part of what you see or feel is happening here is the same thing that
happens with any Citadel room. In the beginning a discussion is hot stuff and
everyone leaves a message. Then, depending on the topic, fewer correspondents
leave fewer messages as interest flags and then some BG type wag comes along
with a one liner type message and the room goes all awry [to everyone's great
relief].
DDBBS has reached that stage. You and li'l alice have dominated the board
with your styles of humor and bantering for several months but as a focus of
the board its intensity has begun to wain. No disrespect, but I began Z-ing
rooms in December. Right now you're down because your creative intensity is
worn out and no one has yet provoked you anew. Give it a while.
I believe that your problem on Citadel One, which others had to a different
degree (and only Brenda, Vince, Wallaby (surprised), and Kenneth Mitchell did
not have), was a belief that arguments were meant to change minds and should
end at some point when either all minds had changed or it was obvious that
none would be. You finally learned to bow out of discussions that bored you,
but what probably seemed to you as dully repetitious was to some of us small
but important changes in argument that fascinated us and kept us writing.
Citadel One is still worth fighting for; without it, DDBBS is less than it
might be. Together they make a marvelous pair.


86Jan17 from Louis Zeppa
Jerry,
I hope your eye isn't giving you too much trouble. I once had pink eye for
six months because I stopped putting in the medicine too soon. Also, I smoked
at the time and the smoke irritated the hell out of it and made it worse. Hope
Michelle is home and perky.


86Jan17 from PAGAN FLAMES
Glad you haven't quit calling all bbses, Louis. I can understand your leaving
Cit. Decomposed's later messages only makes your arguments better.
And Jerry, before I forget, I hope your eye gets better. You may try
rubbing peanut butter in it and having the cat lick it off. It's worth a
shot.
I agree about those statements made by Louis re my ideas on arguments. I
believe in the difference between a discusion and a debate, but I do get tired
of what seems to be endless repitition and I move on.
But my problems with Cit still linger. Cit has a few arguments going,
mostly about topics I don't care about, like Gun Control. Perhaps I dislike
discussions where I can't see any kind of resolutions being made.
I do think that Cit has lost much of its comaraderie, or least it doesn't
show. Cit seems much too relaxed for its own good. We're all (or were all)
sitting back on our sofas sipping wine and watching the world turn, discussing
boxing and the stock market. Zzzz.
DDBBS hits me as going that same way. It's as if we're all going to sleep.
There's nothing for me to do on here anymore except leave a quip whenever I
have the nerve anymore. Perhaps the freshness has worn off, but I think it
just needs a rejuvination. Just like theatre, motion pictures and every other
art, I think DDBBS needs a push to get it going again.
The problem is, what push? What is it that we can do that would be in our
common interest? We all want to see DDBBS flourish. We all want to be
onstage, or at least some of us do; but we want to be entertained, informed,
or have our brains picked. I don't think this is happening right now.


86Jan17 from PAGAN FLAMES
Think about this then:
Why do you call DDBBS? What is it that makes you pick up the phone, dial
the number until you get a carrier, or set your autodialer to run, or (for the
sysgod) push the esc key and log in?
This is not a fleeting question, and I don't expect a quip of an answer.
You don't have to say anything, but I'd appreciate it if you took a little
time sometime, perhaps as you're lying in bed, or watching some god-awful
re-run, and think about what makes you call DDBBS? I did that for Cit, and my
answer was: habit. So I quit.
I don't like to ask questions of others that I would not answer myself. So
here goes.
I call DDBBS because I like to get a little human contact with other
people. I get up in the morning, drive to school where the bulk of my
converstion, which must comprise all of 12 sentences total, goes something on
the lines like:
"Well, I think that the metaphore that Chaucer is trying to impress us with
is..."
or
"1066 a.d."
or
"I had that professor last quarter. I liked him."
You get the idea. I spend my classes listening to instructors look at the
class like we're idiots because we can't appreciate middle-english. Between
Classes I look up books in the card catalog and then find later that they're
checked out. I eat lunch, study and sleep in my car.
Then I come home and spend about 20 minutes a night talking to my family at
dinner, which usually includes:
"What did we get for mail?"
"Did the dog get fed?
"When are you going to wash that car?"
Then its up to the computer room where I log onto bbses and try and keep
some sort of sanity going. So when I see stuff like
And SUCHNSUCH is a goddamned liar! He comes on here with his lies and then
leaves and goes onto CWSIG and lies behind my back!
or
muf is a mupt hey you guz i can't believe this if for real pleaz cumplay
with me
or
Bat-head to you too.

No, head bat to two you!

No, hat-bead two you stew.

Huh?

This sadly, gets me very depressed about the state of humanity, and really
makes me wonder why I bother to call anymore. Of course, I could stop calling
and go back to being an almost pure-recluse that I was before, but that just
makes me want to call bbses and stir up something.

86Jan17 from PAGAN FLAMES

-whew-




86Jan18 from Jerry Moore
-whew- is right! my eyes aren't up to trying to read long messages at the
moment, but I think I got most of what you said up there, and I will answer in
some detail when I can see to type better, and have had time to think about
it. I left a message in the new "warmonger's room>" before I got here, since
I just hadta move that massive invasion thing out of the lobby! And yes, I do
know who 'warmonger' is. Sheesh!

86Jan18 from Louis Zeppa
Whew is right! Pagan, I think you said what I said; or at least, I agree with
what you said. The problem with all BBSes is that they are a slice of life and
much of life is boring and tedious. BBSdom, being filled primarilly with
adolescent white males, is even more limited than elsewhere in someways. Jerry
and I are just geriatric adolescents and will be all of our lives.
I've never been a student at Davis, but at the College of San Mateo, San
Francisco State, CSUS in the 60s, and the University of North Carolina, it was
easier to meet fellow students. CSUS now doesn't have the same intimate
atmosphere that it had in the 60s. I used to sit out front of the art building
where 90% of the student body had to pass -- I eventually met lots of people
simply because they went by me so often they thought they knew me. As it is
no, CSUS has no such spot and it wasn't as much fun on campus last semester
and much harder to meet people. Since I'm somewhat of a recluse too, that is a
problem. You'd be better off at Davis if you didn't sleep in your car. Fall
asleep in the library near by books on the classes you take; eventually you'll
become a fixture and people will talk to you spontaneously.
As to BBS discussions, lead a few on topics that interest you. The problem
with your style in arguments is that the discussions peter out before lots of
people have a chance to state their views. People like Brenda and I, keep
discussions alive long enough for a wider range of responses (include Vince in
that list and Mongul by some of his other names). Even my pompously long
manifestos can't exhaust a topic: gun control, for example, is more
interesting than the citadel crew makes it: read through the bill of rights
and you will find that the 2d ammendment is the only one with qualifying
clauses -- I had never noticed that before. There must be an essay in that
somewhere.
You opened an interesting discussion here with your quote from CS Lewis
(I've used that essay everywhere since then) but then you let it go. Vince and
I were both interested in contributing but, obviously, neither of us wanted to
lead it.


86Jan18 from BLACK GUARDIAN
i'll repeat it -whew-..For calling reasons, I catch yr drift PF..for awhile I
had the same problem..but after spending more than 5 weeks in SD without a
computer to use..I found I missed the banter, the arguments, etc...I find it
hard to admit..but before I started logging on to these BBSs, I was something
of a homebody..and for the first time I have met people that are interesting
albeit difficult at times to talk to..share my life story with, ad infinitum
(sic)...I even spent 4 days away from the computer when I got home...and found
I was bored..i have calmed down quite a bit with my calling..and only call the
few boards that are interesting..and definitely have dropped the teeny bopper
types...no disrespect to them..but I guess I am just getting too old to
tolerate some of it...but Nuff Said...

Does anyone have a list of BBSs for Italy? Mild curiosity mainly, but I wud
hate to see my modem sit idle for 2 yrs...and trust me..I am not going to call
DDBBS (sorry Jer) from Naples..I also figure it might help me learn more
Italian that way...


86Jan18 from PAGAN FLAMES
I quit sleeping in the car because its so damned uncomfortable. Never buy a
car until you've slept in it.
I have been hanging around the lib quite a bit, but the library is very
large and spread out, and its difficult for the people who work there to
become fixtures, much less someone like me. I will consider your advice
though, if I can figure a way to apply it.
Its difficult for me to lead discusions because I have apathy more most
everything (as I'm sure B.G., Jerry, Gary and others will back me up on
this.) Most of my enterances into discussions stem from a fleeting interest.
As for the POISON OF SUBJECTIVISM discussion, I got so damned confused I just
got disgusted with it and let it die. I really hate getting to the point
where I don't know which way is up, and I usually either get angry or I get
depressed which makes me angry, and so I bow out.


86Jan18 from PAGAN FLAMES
That's another thing. I'm not sure, but maybe I'm expecting the bbs to make
me interested, to make me care about many of the things I don't. Maybe its
just the pathetic mood I'm in, but I do sometimes get upset at bbses for not
trying to do something more than just record someone's typing.

...

86Jan20 from Louis Zeppa
And now we're back to Pagan's absolute vs subjective question. If Jerry
were really censoring this base, I wouldn't be here. But he allows private
rooms to go there own way, or at least they seem to, so his judicious
censorship is acceptable and your bouncing messages around and changing room
names makes DDBBS somewhat of a game in itself.

86Jan20 from PAGAN FLAMES
Not to destroy whatever's going on in this room, I'm going to try and keep
this message brief.
I was thinking this morning about all the time that I spend during the day
thinking about bulletin boards in general, and DDBBS to be specific. I find
that I spend a good amount of my waking time going over what I've read on the
bbses, what's going on, etc.
And of course, I've been spending some fair amount of time trying to figure
the basis of my recent dis-satisfaction with DDBBS and what I can damn well do
about it.
I have decided (and I should have said this on Citadel) that I should take a
short sabbatical from DDBBS (I don't have these problems on Tibbs or CWSIG)
and let my batteries recharge. That whole Pagan Claus/Pagan Persona thing
really drained me dry emotionally and creatively, and I think it would be in
my best interest to take some time off and come back anew after some
indefinate amount of time. I am reminded of how well this seems to fit in
with the so-called NEW CELIBACY which I believe is a grade A crock, but I'm
still going to give it a try.
So, during my absence, please feel free to use this room as you wish. It is
my sincerest hope that this room continues to hold some interesting
conversation while I'm gone and it would be interesting to see how it looks
when I get back.
As for how long I'm gone, I'm hoping my will power will hold out to the end
of the month. My problem is that if I miss something on DDBBS than I feel
that I've slept through some part of my life that I can never retain.
However, I am hopefully going to give it a try anyway and see what good/bad it
does me.
So, I guess, I'll see you all in February. And if you need a topic to throw
out for a discussion, the whole thing about t.v. violence (especially cartoon)
never did get really off the ground, as far as I'm concerned; but then, I
won't be around to see it for awhile. At any rate, see you in Feb, all
willing.

86Jan20 from PAGAN FLAMES
Also, I give my word as a pagan that I will not cheat and log in under
different handles to "peek at what's going on."


86Jan21 from Vince Seifert
Whatever.
DDBBS cycles in about 10-14 days, so you shouldn't miss much, Pagan. Have a
nice vacation, you've earned it. See you again soon!
A while back, someone (I forget who), asked us to tell why we call BBSs in
general and this one in particular; I intended to answer, but got
sidetracked...
I cal DDBBS for several reasons. DDBBS was my first BBS, so I feel something
like loyalty to it. I prefer the Citadel format to all others I've tried; it's
more powerful and certainly easier to use. I'm an aide here, so I feel that I
have a responsibility to the system and to Jerry that goes along with the
privilege: I'm not doing my job if I neglect to call in and keep tabs on
things. I use it to communicate with the current group of VinceQuest players.
I upload and download software and textfiles. Most importantly, it greatly
extends my social contacts in a weird but effective way... I think of many of
the people on this BBS, and all of the people in this room, as my friends.


86Jan22 from Louis Zeppa
As to Vince's suggestion of a continuing discussion of BBS manners, I've
been trying since I got on to get that going. Now that there are three of us
talking the same language, it just might happen.
There are some problems. First are those, as mentioned above, who are
willing to dish it out but not take it. Second, there are different types of
users and no way to avoid offending someone: I only quit Citadel #1 because I
couldn't say anything without me becoming the issue, I left in order to clear
that out of the way. But if that had not occured, Vince, Brenda, and I argue
in substantially the same way: forever, no holds barred, no offense taken that
is not given back, etc. But Jerry is wholly different: he hates to be
disagreed with and you know he must be really angry and committed to stay in
an argument more than two exchanges. Then there are those who want to probe
issues and their own thoughts on particular issues outnumbered by those who
merely want an exchange of opinions. You might want to check rooms #1 and #2
on Applebrary for a current example.
The point is that what we need are half a dozen or so of us to thrash
through the issues of BBS manners. After a period of time, we could propose
the ideas that we come up with for discussion on all the Citadels and several
other BBSes (I'm working on a room in Applebrary right now). Then after about
a year of thrashing it through we would have something that would be
technologically obsolete and that no one would pay any attention to in the
first place which doesn't mean that it isn't worth working on, but let's not
expect too much out of it.


86Jan23 from Vince Seifert
We all have ideas of what Dragon's Den "should be". Jerry, of course, has
the most influence, because it's HIS property and he can do whatever he
pleases with it. Aides have considerably less, but still more than other
users. But even users have influence, because without users a BBS is useless;
the system has to be attractive enough to people to get them to call up and
spend time on it.
There has been a kind of "unwritten code" here on the Den that makes it the
system it is. The code is not democratic: new users are chastized for saying
things that "older" (in the sense of time on system) users get away with, and
Pagan Flames, Decomposed, 'lil' alice, and Black Guardian are, in fact,
EXPECTED to say things that would almost be outrageous coming from anyone
else.
As I see it, the code is this: use rooms for the purpose they're labeled
for, or follow the thread of the messages in it. Make fun of people, but don't
offend them. Be witty, not half-witty. Don't use the BBS to vent your spite at
another. No messages pertaining to illegal activities will be tolerated.
The second and third items are a little vague, because they involve varying
senses of humor, but I would like to suggest that one poke fun at anouther
ONLY if one knows that other well enough to be sure that he will think it's
funny, too.
I solicit your comments, complaints, etc... (duck!)

86Jan23 from Larry Reznick
Quack!


Couldn't resist.

I agree with that. However, I think that each BBS will tend to develop its
own personality, varying according to the nature of each of the personXg
presented by its users. A certain amount of tolerance for the BBS's
mutability is therefore required. Obviously, no illegal or legally
questionable material should be put on the BBS since that could tend to remove
the BBS from public use. Venting some frustrations from time to time isn't
necessarily bad, but it can turn nasty when it is done in public rooms. In
there somewhere is a happy middle ground (thought I was going to get occult on
you didn't you?), a range within which each BBS can be different while still
being useful & entertaining to the majority of its users.

It is really up to the Sysop (&, in the case of Citadel, the aides as guided
by the Sysop) to outline the specific niche of the particular BBS & make it
stick. This responsibility can rest on no other shoulders & requires active
participation & overseeing on the part of the Sysop. There seems to be no way
that a Sysop can avoid or relax such responsibility.

Certain rules of conduct should be presented, where appropriate or necessary,
just as writing for certain publications require a style sheet and request
content restrictions. Those who can not honor the prevailing style as set by
the Sysop (& enforced by the Sysop & aides) are better ejected from the
system. Such methods are no less "democratic" than any "standard"
publications market.


86Jan24 from Vince Seifert
What disturbed me about the recent spats on DDBBS was that some of the
"fun" remarks had teeth in them. That's nowhere near as bad as the physical
threats expressed on other systems, but is still inconsistent with the general
light-hearted air that Jerry has said he wants for his board.


86Jan24 from Ron Pacheco
I know what you mean Vince. Sometimes you read more than what the writer says
or not in the light it was written(you think Jerry could get some lightbulbs
for this room?). The physical threats are something else and should not be
tolerated by the users as well as the sysops. Too bad as those type of
discussions are often foul winded(rear type emissions).
Whoops, here comes Jerry... thanks for the soapbox, Jer.


86Jan24 from Louis Zeppa
In any human social situation, even in light-hearted edens, some people are
going to develop antagonisms which will be expressed in whatever medium the
circumstance allows. On a BBS, that means "remarks" which are not fun. Each
BBS is not an isolated world, many of us participate on several boards. There
is no way to prevent or even want to prevent relationships, good or ill, from
expressing themselves from one board to the next.
It would be nice if we could prevent the attempts at physical intimidation
that arise from BBS correspondence, I suspect that in the long run, we will
only be able to contain it to the whackiest of us. In the problems on the
Castle, if the stories I hear/read are correct, the sysop must take a big
chunk of responsibility for not coming down hard and fast on the
perpetrators.
Here on DDBBS, I have been mildly and strongly rebuked for allowing certain
folks to provoke me into nasty comments. Perhaps the provocations should not
have reached my eyes, or perhaps Jerry and Laura expected more of me than the
provocateurs, but so far, they have contained as spats expressions of anger
which could as easily overwhelm DDBBS as it has some other systems.
On the other Citadel, the problem, it seems to me, stems from those who
don't understand political argumentation and who prefer to find a scapegoat
when a discussion gets beyond their interest or goes strongly against their
personal political views. There is a certain attitude that Citadel should be
like Cyber and that new modem users should defer to the more experienced
Cyberians.
From my perspective, Citadel #1 might have benefited had Tim taken a bit
more of the "mother hen" approach that Jerry has here. But there is a fine
line between guidance and coercion.
A free form BBS as Citadel #1 can be exciting and stimulating. But it
requires that no one be left alone at the hands of any group or else
bitterness does develop. A guided BBS, may be fun but I haven't found one
except the computerist systems like that. Jerry directs DDBBS, his vision is
clear and consistantly expressed, and when things don't go the way he wants
it, he manipulates the board so that his manipulations become part of the fun.
But it is a fine line and it does limit topicality and expressiveness -- in
the hands of another, the line could be crossed into the realm of a single
issue board with everyone reinforcing everyone elses' prejudices.
Vince, I think the point I'm trying to make is that arguments will develop
and go beyond being mere spats and I'm not sure how much control one wants to
or should take of them. The active members have some input but on the bottom
line it depends on the sysop's view and his ability to work with and allow a
diversity of creative expression and imbue the members with his vision and be
tolerant of the diversity that he allows.
[and there I went, femenist though I am using masculine pronouns.]


86Jan24 from Ron Pacheco
We're talking about Jer having
clear vision right now? Jerry couldn't the broad side of a barn(although why
he would desire to strike the ediface of an animal's structure...). Yes,
Jerry does provide the leadership here but a lot of his patrons also do so
too!


86Jan25 from PAGAN FLAMES
Well, I only lasted a few days off DDBBS. Of course, my short vacation did
tell me one thing, it isn't totally burn-out that's my problem. I (if you
haven't guessed) came back last night as NOT 'LIL' ALICE thinking it would be
interesting and it turned out not to be.
The point to this message does not really concern how fun it is to be
'lil' alice. I was just told today of a very interesting thing that happened
to a friend of mine in bbses. I won't go into it, but what happened really
bothered me. No, it (use italics here) scared (okay) me. I'm not wholly sure
whether it's simply that my already low love of the human race has just
dropped several notches, or if I'm really scared of the damned modems
themselves, but its been bothering me.
I was thinking in the car today about how modeming has affected my life.
Since I have never used my modem for data bases (i.e. THE FARCE and
CRAP-U-SERVE), or for house-to-house hookup, or really for any other reason
than to connect to a bbs, I could very well say that BBSes have changed my
life.
For the near-year that I have been bbsing, I've been shrugging off any
realization about how big a part bbses play in my life. When I think now of
how my life would be different without the buggers, it really scares me. My
writing style would be different, my personality would be somewhat different,
I would know a hell of a lot fewer people in Sacto...it's mind boggling when I
think of it.
And then I think of the other people I know whose lives have been twisted
or just bent around by bbses and bbsing in general, and that really frightens
me. Literally. These damned things have a hell of a lot more power than I
expected. It took one asshole to prove that to me.
I have decided to extend my vacation past the Feb 1st deadline which I
missed anyway due to the damned NOT 'LIL' ALICE campaign. I have decided to
extend my exile to include all the citadels, dym, middle-earth and perhaps
cwsig. I'd probably cut vortex too but I'm committed to running a rpg game
over there, and TIBBS is such a different style of bbs (technical vs.
creative) that I would be cutting my life-line to ti-dom by quitting that
also.
I have decided on a small project (small I hope) which I will be working
on. It is my belief that when I am done, it will clear up in my mind some of
my problems with bbses. When I am done, I will return to DDBBS and pick up
where I left off. I'm not sure about whether I'll show off my project or
not. Too many people with hungry lawyers out there. Besides, its a very
personal project, and I doubt that anyone would get any good out of it except
me anyway.
So, when I'm done, I'll be back. I don't know how long it'll take. I
would like to just say before I go how much I've enjoyed your input in here in
my absence. I wish I could comment on it, but it's a bit too mountainous to
do that right now. Hopefully I'll be able to do that again later when I get
my wits about me again.
I can't pass up a little bit here and there. Louis is right about our
differences in arguing styles. There are those who are out to convert the
others, and do not wish to consider the evidence. Then there are those who
are simply out for the argument itself. I usually go into an argument trying
to figure out my own position on things, and for that I often get left behind
as the conversation moves on. Subjectivism did that to me. I would try to
consider the thoughts someone would leave an

86Jan25 from PAGAN FLAMES
d from that I would make up my mind, only to find that there were other
thoughts that went on, and I ended up hopelessly bogged down.
As for arguments in general, the hell with them. If people are going to
jerks than they will be jerks and that's the way it is. All you can do is "n"
them out or go private, which is what INFERNO was more or less designed to
do.
Have fun, peoples. I feel like Frosty the Snowman melting away for the
summer. I'll be back again someday.








"Said the apple to the orange:
"'Oh, I wanted you to come
"'Close to me and kiss me to the core.
"'Then you might know me like no other Orange
"'Has ever done before."

--Al Stewart

86Jan26 from Louis Zeppa
^^^^^
What a curious message. Pagan Flames says Goodbye> again. Pagan, I suggest
that you either clarify your comments or do stay away -- that is, should we
discuss that stuff or ignore it? If he isn't planning to at least read our
response, then his comments are an unwarranted and pointless intrusion.
Perhaps we should transfer our BBS conversation into a private room with a
different name so that Pagan can come back and leave his little irrelevancies
where they won't interfere.

For example:
1) what event scared him? Our experience with Pagan is that shadows frighten
him.
2) what kind of project might bring out lawyers?
3) goodbye again should respond to our comments rather than set up whole new
but vague reasons for taking off.

I guess you can say that I am offended by Pagan's message.


86Jan26 from BLACK GUARDIAN
I'LL TELL ya what frightened him....a mutual acquaintaince was logged on to
DYM and someone where he worked logged on and put two and two together and he
was fired on Friday...for his sexual preference..it scares him but it has a
multitude of people upset to boiling mad...and you can put me in the latter.


86Jan26 from Louis Zeppa
Me, too. Someone should can the adder or take him to court. What does sexual
preference have to do with a job anyway? But why couldn't Pagan say that?
That's a piece of information that everyone who logs on to DYM should
know.
Boiling mad...sheesh...oil boiling mad!


86Jan26 from Jerry Moore
Hmmm... I'd like to get the name and address of the business involved -- I
know a few lawyers myself.

On the other hand, Pagan's friend probably stands to lose, no matter what. If
he doesn't fight it, he loses his job; if he DOES fight it, he becomes
publicly identified as other than heterosexual, and unfortunately our society
doesn't yet allow that freedom easily, in spite of the laws and the best
intentions of some of us. Be it known here that I am quite thoroughly
heterosexual myself, and although I've "liberalized" my viewpoint in the last
few years, I am still rather uncomfortable in the presence of most homosexual
or bisexual individuals.
In spite of this, or perhaps even BECAUSE of it, I also am very angry, but
since I don't know the details, I can't really do anything except express my
sorrow for the person and my anger at the bigotry. For all I know, he may in
actuallity be heterosexual, since I remember being advised to list myself as
"Bi" when I first logged in over there -- the reason being that it was the
only way to get members of the same sex on your "Match List" -- and some of us
weren't seeking sexual contact, but wanting to meet people, much as we do here
on DDBBS.

I'd still like to know the name of the outfit, though -- I'd hate to think I
might be doing business with 'em...


86Jan26 from Louis Zeppa
Ron, of course, missed the point. Certainly, without users a BBS is nothing.
But while Jerry's notions of what DDBBS should be may be hazier than his ideas
about what it should not be, Jerry is directing its development away from the
worst excesses of Earl's and Citadel. Once he figures out an economical
management scheme, DDBBS may develop the intellectual attributes of Citadel
while preventing trivializers from ruining discussions. At the same time, he
will be able to maintain the lighthearted rooms. That is, Jerry's aim may not
be perfect, but first he needs to learn how to aim and then we all must help
create the target.


86Jan26 from Vince Seifert
Right. That's what this room is for.
The goal here is to find out what constitutes "accepted behavior" on this
BBS, and then to put it somewhere that newcomers will notice it. Hopefully,
users will then control themselves.


86Jan26 from Ron Pacheco
Louis, of course has missed the point! Even the best directors cannot direct
without followers and even followers are not always followers but also
directors. Who follows whom could be a case of the tail wagging the dog or
vice-versa.


86Jan26 from Jerry Moore
While you guys are missing your points, let's not get sidetracked by a
personal confrontation here! I think you are both right -- in that I
generally let the users decide on where they are going and what they are doing
there -- BUT only within the limits that *I* set. There are enough modem
users who agree with my standards that I can afford to see some leave because
the board isn't going the direction THEY desire. I believe that a sysop who
tries to please everyone ends up with most everyone leaving in disgust because
things didn't go THEIR way. You have to pick a focus for a BBS and direct
things that way. The people who don't agree with you will generally find
another board to call, and some of those who do agree will help keep things
going the way you want them.

...

Modem Users' Lobby]

86Jan27 from Louis Zeppa
And I believe that you are now comfortable with your ability to direct a DDBBS
style, DDBBS itself is beginning to evolve into different patterns of
usage...that is what I see happening.

86Jan27 from Vince Seifert
In that case, Jerry, could you define the limits that YOU set on the board,
for the record, so that we can start figuring out user-acceptable guidelines
within them?

86Jan27 from Louis Zeppa
They are rather obvious and Jerry shouldn't actually write them down until
after we've discussed this in more depth. It's not really the limits that he's
set, and I'm sorry if I used that word, it's the vision that he has and his
own sense of community that provide the ground for continued evolution of the
system. Once we start defining limits, we will hedge ourselves into a closed
system.

86Jan27 from Jerry Moore
Actually, I feel that my 'limits' are relatively few, and logical. The most
obvious one is that I won't permit messages which are currently considered
illegal in the legislative sense -- obviously, I don't want my system closed
down by the local authorities, and I refuse to go 'underground' with it. All
other rules are enforced in a more relativistic sense, in that I consider the
source and the environment when making the decision as to whether to move or
delete the message in question, or to simply comment on it, or leave it alone
entirely.
The things I try to limit on DDBBS are primarily "Feuds" as opposed to
discussions, or even 'arguments'. I consider personal insults uncalled for,
except when we are all OBVIOUSLY joking around, and the environment of the
messages in question (ie. the context and the roomname) is the primary
consideration.
I also try to keep the more serious rooms to their stated topics. If someone
wants to start a new topic, they can always create a new room for it, and I
have no objection if they interject a comment into an ongoing discussion to
let people know that they are doing so. I try to keep a certain number of
rooms on the system available for 'general purpose' comments, so I don't feel
bad about enforcing a certain amount of 'purity' in other rooms. I _DON'T_
like to see running conversations that carry on from room to room, as these
tend to corrupt the basic rationale of the Citadel system's room creation
aspect. This doesn't mean that you can't comment on the contents of one room
in another, but the comment must be pertinent to the discussion that it
appears in. Of course, that rule is relaxed considerably for the 'general
purpose' and 'pure fun' rooms...


86Jan28 from Vince Seifert
As in courtesy? Seems to me that the two main violations are A) people
poking fun at other people too sharply, and B) new users who come in and pee
on the carpets, so to speak, by leaving off-the-wall, silly, or offensive
messages in places they don't belong.
My guideline for A is never to say something intended to offend or hurt
someone else, and to be ready to make a public or private apology if I
accidentally do so... as we all know, someone else may have vulnerabilities
that are not immediately obvious, and it is possible to hurt someone without
meaning to.
B is a little tougher. There are ALWAYS going to be twerps with modems, and
I guess it's just the Aides' jobs to clean up after them and deliver a reproof
ranging from gentle to explosive. We can't do anything about the ones who do
it on purpose except delete their accounts and frustrate their attempts at
expression, but there are some who simply don't know any better. We have to
tell them what will and will not be tolerated, someplace they'll see right
away.


86Feb03 from PAGAN FLAMES
So, then, what are we to do? People's manners are up to the individual's
discretion. We can leave messages saying "be relevant" and "be nice" but in
the end they'll leave anything they feel like until the aide catches it and
moves it.
And what are we really after? Citadel (the system, not the bbs) promotes
this sort of thing. It is one of the easiest systems to enter messages to,
and one of the fastest to read messages from. It promotes the kind of breezy
conversational tone that the amis and the Hals can't achive.
The problem with having a conversational tone bbs is that you have to take
the whole package. It's like hamburger meat. You can't buy the hamburger
without getting the animal fat mixed in. If you don't want to seperate it,
you either have to cook the whole damn thing or buy a more expensive cut. I
think bbs personalities go the same way. We can't have the easy going
conversation that DDBBS uses without getting the "duh, my head is really up my
ass" sort of message. I don't think any Cit could do it unless it were
heavily policed, and that would simply be counter-cit advantage.

...

INFERNO, cont*> 2 messages - 2 new

86Feb03 from PAGAN FLAMES
I'm back. I have given the whole thing a lot of thought and decided that I
will not let myself be chased off bbses by gutteral slime such as that which
calls DYM and fires its employees. My last message before quitting was
confusing, I agree. I was upset and the whole thing reflected that. I did
not tell the circumstances of why I was upset because I was not sure if the
victim wanted it told in a semi-private room like INFERNO. Of course, this is
all academic now. Everyone more or less knows. As for my project, I have not
finished it. Hopefully I will. I refuse to comment more about it. I have a
bad habit of not doing things that I say that I will do, but I usually do
things that I don't talk about. Plus the fact that I don't want lawyers
hasseling me adds to this. (Note to the FBI: said project is not illegal, just
possibly offensive to anyone who would steal my computer and go through my
disks.)
As for being frightened by my shadow...sorry. We'll be having an early
spring this year.

I've opened this room for a discussion that I haven't seen on this bbs, at
least not in so many words.
What really bothers me is the fact that bbsing has a sizable effect on our
lives. I've seen bbsing in whole or in part responsible for changing the
lifestyle of several people.
I am not too happy to admit that this damned grey box can exert such
influence in my life. By logging on again, I've decided that I will allow it,
but it still bothers me that something I type in, even something as little as
the answer to some question on DYM six months back, would have the ability to
wreak so much havoc. This is the sort of thing that bothers me. I wonder
everytime I enter a message if somehow it may come back to haunt me at a later
date. Will some message I wrote telling my thoughts on religion be used
against me someday? Am I provoking someone into deciding to "visit" me some
day to "discuss" my messages? Will something I say get me fired or denied
credit? It really makes me wonder if it's worth the enjoyment I get out of
it?

Louis said something (on another bbs) to the effect that there are jerks and
there are responsible people on bbses. If the responsible people leave, then
we end up with jerks all around us.

I think that I don't want DDBBS to be completely overrun with jerks.
Hopefully, my presence cancels one out. Maybe all our presences cancel them
out. Its worth it. The jerks have congress, the university administration
dept, part of the faculty, much of the east coast, most of europe and asia and
I'm sure some live on the same block. I guess bbses should be at the very
least, jerk controlled. Maybe someday we can add an epigrapf for DDBBS (100%
Jerk Free.)

86Feb03 from PAGAN FLAMES
(100% Jerk free)


86Feb04 from Jerry Moore
Ya know something, Pagan -- nearly every hobby I've ever had has caused
significant alterations to my lifestyle. Look at the Dragon's Den, for which
I quit a $10.00+ per hour, relatively easy government job. That started with
my science-fiction hobby, and perhaps my FRP gaming hobby, which was an
offshoot from the SF part. When I was into photography, I was INTO
photography -- spending the majority of my income on darkroom equipment and
better lenses for my cameras, not to mention trips to out of the way places to
take pictures of old bridges and churches, which fascinated me at the time.
When I was into camping, you wouldn't find me in the city on a weekend unless
I had to work overtime, and I still have a massive amout of camping gear,
although the dog ate the rather large tent some years back. I could go on and
on, but you get the idea -- for me, the BBSs are a major thing, but only one
in a long series of major things. I sometimes wonder what the next one will
turn out to be, since they seem to be only vaguely related -- maybe I'll get
back into hardware hacking, but this time on computers instead of things like
Theremins and Color organs, like the last time -- lord knows, I've got TONS of
electronic parts and junk stored away...

86Feb04 from Vince Seifert
Sounds like you want security (in the psychological sense). Security and
freedom are a kind of balance, you can't have more of one without losing some
of the other. Everyone has to make their own decision on where to balance
security and freedom. Make yours, and then try not to worry about it.
Should BBS's (this one in particular) have more security? If I were running
DYM, I would find out who had released the damaging information and then
blacklisted him or her: removed his account and informed other sysops and
users that this person is a fink. I think it is not inappropriate for sysops
to fequire a user's name and phone # as a condition of continued service: the
ethics of the sysops of the more serious boards seem good.
Pagan, everything you do will have advantages and disadvantages, and you're
the only one who can decide if the one is worth the other.
For me, BBSing is worth it. I hope you come to the same conclusion, but I
can't fault you if you don't.

86Feb04 from PAGAN FLAMES
I am the type of person that hates most change. I buy several identical
peices of clothing so that I always dress more or less the same. I don't like
it when the furniture gets re-arranged. I have outrageous brand-name
loyalty. I eat the same foods (more or less) and keep the same schedule as
much as possible. I park in the same place in the parking lot (if possible)
every day, I pack the same lunch. I ate balogna sandwhiches for lunch almost
every day I went to school, from 1st grade to 12th.
Joseph Wambaugh (in a PLAYBOY interview) once said that policeman who have
a poor view of people and the world end up forming fierce, almost irrational
loyalties to a few people. I do this. I have a low opinion of the vast
majority of people and a hobbesian view of society. I end up with being very
loyal to a few people that I feel I can be loyal to.
I like to think that I am in control of my life, in fact, I almost NEED to
feel this way. This is one of my fallings out with popular religious
doctrine. For this reason, I don't like the thought that bbses can have such
a radical affect on my life. I realize that I have to accept this, but it
doesn't make the pill any easier to swallow.


86Feb05 from Vince Seifert
Well, you control what you do on BBSs, but you have to accept the fact that
there are other people whose lives are close enough to yours that what they do
affects you, and you can't control them any more than they can you. BBSing
opens up a shallow (mostly) but long and wide pathway for others to enter your
live and vice-versa.


86Feb06 from PAGAN FLAMES
Seeing that this discussion seems to be winding down, I'd like to propose
another.
A friend of mine had a professor once who suggested that students try a
different personality in every class. Since students generally do not overlap
and have the same classes, it is entirely possible that no-one would really
know what would be going on.
In a way, I think I do this on the boards. My personality as PF is, I
believe, different from my real persona. Pagan is louder, ruder, and probably
much funnier that I am in the flesh. For some reason I feel uncomfortable
being addressed as Pagan in certain situations because I know that I cannot
project the Pagan Flames in person or on the phone that I can on the
boards.
David333 from DYM likewise had a different personality. David was mostly
quiet, gentle, prone to self-conscious quips and attempts to start
conversation. David, like Pagan, is a part of me, though neither are my whole
persona.
I also go under my real name on some bbses, and I think I'm mostly like
myself under that name. Quiet, passive, tries to be helpful, tries to be a
wit. Usually fails.
A couple people I've talked to who know me primarily as PF seem to be
believing my PR (my image.) I find this odd. When I say something
outrageous, something that PF would say (if I catch someone trying to kill me,
I would try to kill him, and if I succeeded, would cut the meat from his/her
bones, cook it and eat it), I find that people believe that I really would.
Of course, I may, but it is rather disconcerting to think that people believe
the image I put out as PF is actually my own.

86Feb06 from PAGAN FLAMES
The topic then is this: Do you believe that we are seing a mask that people
put on when we read/write messages? Or, are we seeing some sort of hidden
truth in people's personas? Is someing playing out some sort of fantasy
persona, or is that person letting us tap into their raw, unmasked,
personality?
I've been wondering this ever since I've been on bbses, and I think I've
posed this question in different, less pure terms. But either way, I am
deeply interested in this subject. Not only will it allow us to get a better
handle on the messages/personalities of others, but it could be a window into
our own souls as well.

86Feb06 from PAGAN FLAMES
I have taken up entirely too much room as it is, so I will offer my view on my
next login.

86Feb06 from PUDDLEJUMPER
I have met few people who did not have a few personnas that they used in
varying situations to either help themselves fit in or to give themselves more
power. I suspect that what we see on these boards is a reflection of
that. Puddlejumper is sometimes whimsical, sometimes serious...sometimes
goofy, sometimes intellectual...usually friendly, but he'll snap back when he
gets zapped, though he'll temper it with some tact. Punjab is much more
serious, even in his humor. He always speaks his mind but with a sense of
propriety. He's argumentative, except with fools. That's why you'll only find
him on Citadel-1 and Nybble. Prince Jeu-des-mots almost never takes anything
seriously. His name, by the way, is french for "play on words"...and that
pretty well sums up this jolly prince. Of course, you'll only find him on
Earl's Castle!

86Feb06 from Louis Zeppa
The discussion here disturbs me, for some reason, more than any other BBS
discussion. This must be my sixth try at leaving a message. Half of me feels
this is an important issue, half feels that it is being approached in a
trivial fashion, and yet my emotional turmoil on thinking about what has been
said, by everyone here but especially Pagan, demonstrates to me, at least,
that Pagan has reached into a very sensitive, and thus important, matter for
us all. But whatever it is, it is very illusive and slithers out from under
the finger I try to lay on it. As Mongul would say, "ohwell....."

86Feb06 from Vince Seifert
Elusive? I don't find it so. For me, BBSing is simply enjoyable and useful
enough that it's worth my time and effort. So far, I haven't made any enemies,
and that may color my judgement. I know the antipathy between Louis and VR and
De must make them uncomfortable even to have their MESSAGES in "close
proximity"... Pagan's anxieties over BBSing do not seem unfounded to me, and
it's possible that we can help him be more comfortable with this odd hobby.

86Feb06 from Louis Zeppa
Elusive. Elusive. Elusive. Yet, somehow, the Freudian slip is a valid
statement. The triad of Decomposed/Van Rijn/Gerhard have nothing to do with my
feelings on the ideas that Pagan raises here. In fact, it's the friends and
the intensity with which the potential usefulness of BBSing has been
actualized in my own experience, and I suspect this is true of Pagan as well,
that makes me anxious for my participation and BBSing itself. Everything Midas
touched turned to gold and because of that gold and his touch were valued at
less than shit. If your touch lacks even the edifying experience of the golden
images, you too would be somewhat trebidatious about touching or being touched
by something so useful and enjoyable...

86Feb06 from PAGAN FLAMES
The root of my problems lie in CONTROL, as far as I can see. I like having
control of my life (or at least, as much as I can.) It's true that other
people's actions affect my life, but all things considered, those people have
been kept at a minimum. I have no lady-friend, so there is the loss of a
major influence. I do not see much of my friends (every couple weeks or so)
so there goes a major influence. I don't sociate(?) much with people at
school, so there's a big influence missing. I see my family and talk to them
about an hour or so every evening at dinner, and a bit more on weekends, but
for that, I'm really free of most people's influence on my life (not regarding
those things I have no control over anyway, like RR thumbing his nose at
IndoChina or something.) In otherwords, I have in my hands just about as much
control as I could potentially have in my hands.
The nice thing about said control is that I have to answer to ME if
something goes wrong. This is also my chief complaint.
However, by bbsing, I believe that I am putting myself in an area where that
control cannot rest in my hands. I am, by my nature, a bit argumentative and
prone to talk and try to entertain if I can. However, it is my opinion that
bbses are capricious instruments, and it bothers me that I can't always figure
what the consequence will be for my every move. If it were as easy as simply
not pissing anyone off, as Vince seems to say, then I would have a much better
frame of mind about bbsing. I think I know what could be taken as an insult
and what can't. However, the thing that bothered me most about the DYM
scandle is that the offending piece of information could not divined as having
the affect that it did. That answer to the DYM questionarre is so out of
context that it wouldn't occur to me that it could be used against me.
Can you understand how I apply this elsewhere? This is a question of
potential misuse. How can I know that something, anything, that I send out
will not come back to haunt me at some later date, espescially that which I
have no idea will come back in such a form? BBSes are a prime inhaler of
ideas, thoughts, and personalities. If this were Russia, I'm sure I'd be in
Siberia for many of the things I've said, implied and provoked in my
protracted time in bbs-land.
It is the cause and affect that bothers me (I would like to insert here
that I resent the comment that someone made saying that I frighten easily. I
take this subject very seriously, and my fears are, in my opinion, well
founded. As for any other fears, I wouldn't believe everything I read on a
bbs. If you believe my PR, then god help you.)

86Feb06 from PUDDLEJUMPER
Interesting...
I hate filling out questionnaires...job applications, loan applications,
income tax forms...that ask for any kind of personal information, Esp. when I
know that that info wil end up in some huge data base where who knows who
might have access to it. Who knows how "who" might react...what power he might
have...what he might do. Perhaps Pagan and I are paranoid, or perhaps we just
like our privacyand the control we want over it; and, maybe, we aren't too
fond of surprises.
I enjoy BBSing, but you will notice that on the "freer" boards,(the Citadels
and DYM) the ones where we talk about love and religion and politics with
irreverence and impunity, I do not use my real name. Yet some of you already
know it, and a few know quite a lot about me.
What am I trying to say, that I'm getting nervous about BBSing? I don't know.
I think that I may have Louis-itis.
...interesting



BOFD.TXT (text/plain, 47108 bytes) [View| Download]

The Best of DDBBS vol I. ed. David St.Claire
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

85Aug23 from PAGAN FLAMES
I see the Earl's invasion has come...Quick, who has the Off! SSSSHHHHHHHHHH.
SSSHHHHHHH
SHHHHHHHH


sshhhhh shhhhh sshhhh


There, that oughta fix em.

85Aug23 from THE MONGUL
How can you tell the earl's castle maruader's have invaded the dragons den?
Are we slicing dragons to pieces? Causing havoc on conversations? Putting all
sorts of writings in all the rooms? No! Has the I.Q. Level of msgs changed
from the invasion no!.
But in time this place will fall to earl's castles followers.

85Aug23 from Matthew Hite

*BOOM!* -- *BANG* -- *FLASH*

A blue puff of smoke arises from the citadel's surface and you find that you
are not in the lobby, but in an exciting realm of mystery and magic - Land of
Shadows.

85Aug23 from JERRY MOORE

*BOOM* -- *BANG* -- *CRASH*

*OUCH!*

Who put this end table here! doncha know its dangerous to leave things
standing around in the shadows! OH! its THAT end table!

*POOF*

...

85Aug24 from JERRY MOORE
Hmmm... strange new bug? When Citadel resets itself after a call, it normally
prints "LOBBY>" on the screen after resetting the modem. But twice today it
printed it vertically like this:

L
O
B
B
Y


Verrrrry Strange!


85Aug30 from PAGAN FLAMES
All those bugs and Gary's foot's always in his mouth and he just can't get
around to stomping them all....

[about 50 linefeeds removed]

Oh well, I know this account's going to go bye-bye, so why not get a few good
shots in?

85Aug30 from JERRY MOORE
AAAAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!! MY EYES!!!!!


All those linefeeds going by at 9600 baud are enough to .......

there just aren't words...

85Aug30 from Gary Meadows
Don't worry Pagan, I can take your slams. I just consider the source and let
them go by without thinking about them. Besides, Just show me a bug in this
code. I dare ya. Try and find one. You can't, can ya.

85Aug31 from PAGAN FLAMES
I'll find a bug yet. Gary isn't that good, no matter what Auto says.

85Aug31 from Otto Roboto
I think Omni is down so much because Gary is working on it (and can't fix it.)

...

85Sep05 from GERHARD EDELWEISS
Actually, none of the above are entirely correct. "Decomposed," long known
for his outre lifestyle, was in the habit of frequenting junior high
playgrounds with a bag of candy. One of his favorites was a sweet young thing
with braces and a minimal I.Q., whose intellectual horizons were limited to
Michael Jackson and 'THE A-TEAM.' Last Friday, Decomposedtook her to Redding
fo Grobniks concert, and she fell in lust with the drummer in the group.
Since all the members of the Grobniks are notoriously into jailbait, when she
crept into their motel room, they kept her. She sent De a telegram saying he
could throw away her clothes and comic books, but to please send her teddy
bear and collection of garter belts. Naturally, he took it badly.
While driving an illegally borrowed BMW at about 1 AM on Sunday morning,
Decomposed, inadvertantly or advertantly, carried out an experiment aimed at
determining the breaking strength of telephone poles. Since he was drunker
than a skunk at the time, and limp enough to survive the impact(s), he lived
to reach the hospital. The BMW, alas, didn't make it. Services for the BMW
will be held on Thursday afternoon, at Meiklejohn's Funeral Parlor and Grill,
Hwy 99 South.
One of the country's leading neurosurgeons, Dr. Ms. Alicia Fountjoy, was the
attending physician at Capital Memorial Hospital Emergency when they hauled
him in. Unfortunately, she recognized him as the person who had repeatedly
molested her when she was a defenseless waif in junior high. Consequently,
there is a possibility that she may not have been as careful as she could have
been during the cortical repairs and dural re-sealing. Apparently, some type
of minor infections have occurred since the surgery, indicating that some form
of contamination remained beneath the pia mater. The reports that she removed
her mask and spit in the central nervous system have not been verified.
As of this writing, Decomposed is in an ICU (Intensive Care Unit) at Capitol
Memorial Hospital, logging in with a small LCD portable of some sort; he is
suffering from a major central nervous system infection, and is not responding
to antibiotic treatment or antipyretic palliative therapy. He has been
physically restrained, and the prognosis is not good. Reports that Dr.
Fountjoy is using him as an experimental subject in an attempt to transplant
bunny rabbit cortex into a human are probably exaggerated.
I suggest that we all begin taking up a collection to send flowers to the
formal planting ceremony, whenever it is held.
Visualize the grave marker: Here lies Decomposed. No one knew his real
name, but he was a good person. He is survived by his parents, his brother,
and mourned by the 6th period girls' gym class at the M. Rafferty Junior High
School.
Requiescat in pace.

...

85Sep11 from GERHARD EDELWEISS
Grumpf. No one seems at all imaginative. Some other systems, people
automatically try the names of various fictional planets every week or so,
trying to find secret rooms. On the MITSFS machine in Massachusetts, *all*
rooms have planet names, it's a rule. Guess I just presumed..... ah, well.
If I don't write in it, it will die, right? Konyetchno. Ave Moore-ator,
morituri te salutant.

...

One Word Only>

85Sep11 from Have A Nice Day
The idea of this room is similiar to Free Association, but only one word
messages are allowed. The word must make sense in the sentence(or kinda
sentence)that is being formed. I'll keep track of what is said and write out
the sentence after a few hundred(maybe less) messages.

...

Primates on RBBS's>

85Oct25 from PAGAN FLAMES
I couldn't resist. I'm sure that this will be one of those rooms that end up
lasting longer than the original so everyone can log after the inspiration
left and say "What the **** does THAT mean?"

85Oct25 from JERRY MOORE
What the **** does THAT mean?

85Oct25 from V Seifert
Ook! Ook!


85Oct27 from JERRY MOORE


*Snork!*


85Oct27 from Rainstar
Rainstar flees from the room at the mention of SPAM. You hear subdued gagging
noises in the distance.

85Oct28 from Gary Meadows
Sounds like he made it to the bath-room!!

85Oct28 from Sterling114
Who? Jerry or Rainstar?
Spamlet?

85Oct28 from Rainstar
You hear the sound of a shower running in the distance.

85Oct29 from Louis Zeppa
'Zunning' not 'Running' is an ancient Zuni ritual meant to bring drought on
one's enemies: it's sort of like wishing on the first star, if you hear a
'zunning' shower you can dry up your enemy's procreative juices.

85Oct29 from JERRY MOORE
Then there's ZUMming, which is the modern Pacific Telesis ritual meant to
bring poverty on one's customers...

85Oct29 from William Trost
Why, those heathen scums.

85Oct31 from Louis Zeppa
Then again, heathens cum, don't they?

85Oct31 from V Seifert
I certainly hope so -- otherwise we'd run out of pagans pretty quick...

85Oct31 from JERRY MOORE
Yeah -- they'd go down in flames....

85Oct31 from William Trost
Boy howdee, this stuff really burns me up.

85Oct31 from PAGAN FLAMES
I hold up my end for procreation.

85Oct31 from JERRY MOORE
You're gonna hafta hold up your own end, Pagan -- I have *my* standards, after
all...

85Oct31 from PAGAN FLAMES
Really?

85Oct31 from JERRY MOORE
Certainly! And they're right at the top of the DDBBS flagpole!

85Oct31 from Larry Reznick
Thank goodness Jerry didn't volunteer to hold up Pagan's end.

85Nov01 from Louis Zeppa
It's the floppy end that does the work.
But maybe Pagan's is long enough to need a flag pole, how does it go: hickory
dickory dock, the mouse ran up pagan's ....

85Nov01 from JERRY MOORE
pant leg?

Hey Pagan! You've got gerbils in your jeans!

85Nov01 from chris erickson
Yeah, they're gonna bite your.....

85Nov01 from PAGAN FLAMES
What? I dare you to say it.

85Nov01 from JERRY MOORE
Kneecaps? Gerbils are terrible about that!

Besides, didja know that Gerbils are illegal in California? I wonder if ya
could get busted for harboring an illegal knee-biting gerbil?

85Nov04 from BLACK GUARDIAN
I havent laughed this hard in quite some time...as the msgs scrolled up...had
a very hard time finding the pause key...but now..back to the program...

85Nov04 from BLACK GUARDIAN
Ya get 20 yrs to life for harboring...for breeding......well...ya all know
what ya can get.....AIDS....

85Nov06 from Gary Meadows
I think I'll delete pagan's password just for him being there!

85Nov06 from Brenda Daniels
Somebody wanna tell me what the heck's goin' on? I'm totally LOST!!!

85Nov06 from PAGAN FLAMES
Well, letz see here. The room is made up as a joke (played against the
Pirates on Rbbs's room). Then someone talks about a shower, then Louis
mentions something about pigmies who starve each other out by not allowing
the other tribe to procreate, then I pick a fight with Trost, then I try to
throw in a cute remark, then everyone decides to be rank, then someone
mentions gerbils and getting aids, so I say maybe Gary has Aids because he's
an aide and I know how he loves furry rodents, and then Gary threatens to
delete my acct (don't do it, Gary. You want Otto back?) and that's the
scoreboard so far.

85Nov06 from PAGAN FLAMES
*whew*

85Nov06 from PUDDLEJUMPER
I still don't know what the hell's going on. BG was here yesterday. Did he ask
that question on my computer? But, how would you know? Guess I'll try another
room.

85Nov06 from PUDDLEJUMPER
Should I give a Pigmie a shower or what?

85Nov07 from JERRY MOORE
He'd probably just slide down the drain anyway...

85Nov07 from NEXUS
But do pigmies who take showers with gerbils get aids?

85Nov07 from Larry Reznick
Only if they want to be real pigs about it.

85Nov07 from V Seifert
If you really want to know, we can use the Scientific Method.
I have a shower. Who's got a gerbil and a pygmy?
We also have to set up controls: a gerbil showering without a pygmy and a
pygmy showering without a gerbil.
Have I forgotten anything?

85Nov07 from Gary Meadows
Yes, for proper control measures, we need more than one of each!

85Nov07 from William Trost
We might also want to try mice and amazons.

85Nov07 from JERRY MOORE
Hmmmm.... I might volunteer to substitute for one of the mice...

85Nov07 from K Pierce
But you forgot one control: the pigmie and a gerbil without the shower.

85Nov07 from Rainstar
Buy the gerbil a lottery ticket. If it wins it can enter legally - right?

85Nov08 from William Trost
Only if he bought it while taking a shower with a pygmie.

85Nov08 from Larry Reznick
I'll buy that.

85Nov08 from PUDDLEJUMPER
Someone knocked at my door this morning and when I opened it there was a
pygmie standing there with a girbel. He said,"hey, man, can I use your
shower?" I said no, slammed the door and went back to bed.

...

...

85Nov05 from JERRY MOORE
Gee, BG! I didn't even know he was watching me!

(DUCK)

Yeah, the Realm's likely to be... Ummm... interesting fer awhile...

*POOF*

85Nov05 from PAGAN FLAMES
Bullshit. I groan at your messages too, B.G.
except that I'm drowned out in the chorus.

85Nov05 from BLACK GUARDIAN
funny..you're the only one hopping around about it....watch out for sharp
objects...bags of wind have a tendency to blow away when pierced....

85Nov05 from V Seifert
And I know just the Pierce to do it, too!

85Nov05 from JERRY MOORE
Yeah, but some of 'em have been puffed up for so long that they tend ta hold
their shape even if someone pokes a hole in 'em...

85Nov05 from V Seifert
I knew there was a reason for rigidity!

85Nov05 from PAGAN FLAMES
Watch it, Blackie. I'm armed with c/rs and I'm not afraid to use them.

85Nov05 from William Trost
Speaking of C/Rs, can you send a FF in a message?


Well, why not try it? Here goes:


(drum roll)

...

85Nov12 from Louis Zeppa
I saw this in a recent magazine but can't remember which one or its author:

Soft Sectored Sex
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
I/O
Warm boot.

...

85Nov13 from PAGAN FLAMES
Lemme see, main power on, drive #2 on, monitor on, P-box on, computer on, boot
emulator, dial phone, slam phone against window sill in disgust, dial again,
get busy signal, dial DDBBS, get tone, modem on, then login, then get dumped
by call waiting.

...

85Nov28 from PAGAN FLAMES
Being a pagan means:

Wanting turkey any day of the year except on Thanksgiving, when we'd rather
have clam chowder.

...

Primates on RBBS's>

85Nov12 from PUDDLEJUMPER
Speaking of microwave ovens, I just bought one last week and I'm wondering...


...that sucker boils a cup of water in 2 mins., defrosts a pound of hamburger
in 4 mins. and cooks a meatloaf in 6... ...in short, it's FAST...


...so, as I said, I was thinking...



If I disabled the safety catch on the door, so I can run it with the door
opened, could I use my microwave as a high speed...



...I mean, really FAST...

(for those mornings when I'm running late)







...HAIR DRYER???

85Nov12 from Polymath
Just remember that it'll cook from the inside out....


85Nov14 from Louis Zeppa
I try, but there is only one poker that cooks from the inside out!

85Nov14 from V Seifert
I'm not sure I'm ready for this, but...

85Nov15 from Rainstar
Ever put a marshmallow in a microwave? Puff, Puff, Puff - POOOF

85Nov15 from V Seifert
If it goes POOOF, you left it in too long.


85Nov17 from Brenda Daniels
HEY! What's all this gooey white crud all over the inside of the microwave?
Who's gonna clean up that mess? Not ME!!!

85Nov17 from V Seifert
Maybe if we fill the thing with ice cream and hot fudge, we can sell it as
an "electric sundae"?

85Nov17 from Brenda Daniels
Whooooo-eeee... Talk about shooting a diet all to heck...

85Nov17 from V Seifert
Diet? What diet?
It's DIE with a T, that's what it is!
-- Garfield

85Nov18 from PUDDLEJUMPER
Actually, the book that came with my microwave says that the waves penetrate
to a depth of an inch and a half (that's probably not deep enough for you, KK)
and that the rest of the food cooks by conduction.

...Anyway, my hairdrier experiment was a disaster. None of my hats fit me
anymore.

pj


85Nov21 from JERRY MOORE
WOW pj, sounds like you had real mexican jumping-bean pop-chili!

85Nov21 from Jim Deford
If ya want some real microwave excitement, cook a potatoe without poking a
hole in it. It's kind of like cooking a Poodle except less messy.


85Nov22 from Brenda Daniels
But only slightly!!!

85Nov22 from Larry Reznick
Jim, when was the last time you cooked a poodle? And did it have a mohawk?

85Nov22 from Jim Deford
Well, Larry. I never cooked a poodle personally (not that I wouldn't like to
though). And don't all poodles have mohawks? They should have open hunting
season on poodles, they are useless as dogs. At least it would give the
hunters some practice and maybe preserve some stop signs from getting holes.

85Nov25 from Rainstar
Not all Poodles, Jim. Standard Poodles are wonderful dogs. They are about the
size of a lab. Certainly not lap dogs. They were bred as waterdogs and some
people still hunt with them. Very stable temperments too. I do agree with you
about the toy and miniature poodles. Totally useless and an affront to all
decent dogs. The only thing worse is an American Cocker. UGH, no self respect
in them at all.

85Nov26 from Larry Reznick
Stable temperaments? Not the standard poodle a friend of mine had. Now there
was a neurotic dog. If this dog ever saw its own shadow, it ran and hid under
the china cabinet. And you should have seen this dog react to the 1971 Sylmar
Earthquake. That china cabinet was never the same.

85Nov26 from PAGAN FLAMES
You can't condemn a breed of dog on the behavior exhibited by one member.
I've seen collies, german shepards and bulldogs that were afraid of anything
that moved. I've also seen poodles, chijuajuas and scott keys that were the
most viscous bastards that ever chewed their way out of the womb. And as for
earthquakes, it seems that any animal (including many humans) would be scared
silly during an earthquake. Hiding under a china closet seems like a half-way
intellegent thing to do.
Personally, I've never cared for any poodle I've met.

85Nov26 from V Seifert
Well, whoever created this room was right... Pirates on RBBS's> has gone to
the great WOM on the sky, and this one's still going!

I don't like poodles either. In my view, the more a dog looks like a wolf,
the better. All the rest are slavish freaks, comparable with mutant goldfish.

85Nov26 from Have A Nice Day
The one thing I miss about homemlife, is my siberian Husky that my parents
kept.

85Nov27 from Larry Reznick
PF, you must realize, that when this particular dog hid under the china
cabinet, the cabinet shook unbelievably. The rattling could be heard outside
of the house. And the dog didn't go for the china cabinet first. Nothing
smart about this particular dog.

Now, my uncle had a large, black, Royal poodle. This dog was smart. Once,
someone tried to break into my uncle's home by throwing a rock through a plate
glass window. Nobody else was home at the time. The dog was in the habit of
throwing itself bodily against the kitchen door, where it was closed in when
nobody was home, whenever it was frightened or wanted to get out. Well, when
the rock sailed through the window, everybody figured that the dog hit that
kitchen door and howled. Nothing was stolen. The thieves probably heard the
resounding boom & howl and ran for the hills.

85Nov27 from V Seifert
I woulda...

85Nov27 from Black Death
yep. i knew a bulldog that was scared of the dark, and you had to go down into
the cellar to get its toy for it... and what is this b.s. about poodles?!?!?!?
huh??? i love poodles!!! i had one for 14 years, and it was a damn good dog!

85Nov27 from PAGAN FLAMES
Until it was killed chasing parked cars.

85Nov27 from JERRY MOORE
We had a pit bull that gave true meaning to the words "too stupid to come in
out of the rain" -- when we got her in the summer, she developed the habit of
sleeping on this little mound in the grass in the back yard, and when winter
came she refused to change her sleeping habits. She would lay there and glare
up at the sky, but steadfastly refused to seek a drier sleeping area. I even
built her a doghouse and placed it on the mound. She promptly dismantled it
and drug the pieces over to one corner of the yard -- and continued sleeping
in the open!
We had a white cat at the same time that loved to torment the dog by
laying across her food dish at dinner time -- the dog would gently pick her up
and set her down somewhere else, and the cat would then beat the dog back to
the dish and lay down again! When the dog finally dropped the cat into the
mud one time (we have no idea if it was on purpose or not) the cat finally
decided to give up the harrassment.

85Nov27 from Jim Deford
I have yet to experience a German Shepard hump my leg!!! Poodles will screw
anything!! Or try to anyway. Poodles are ugly. People are always sticking
ribbons and other crap in their fur. They put sweaters and jackets on them and
jeweled collars on them. They take them to the local poodle center once a
month to get their fur cut into what could be considered punk styles!!!! Maybe
that is where the punkers got their ideas for haircuts!!!!! SHEESH!!!!!! If it
moves and looks like a poodle...............Shoot it before it makes love to
your leg......or the couch.....or your child as he crawls across the living
room floor!!! They are a gross useless animal!!!!!

85Nov28 from Louis Zeppa
All dogs are useless pets. If you'd lived next to Tucker: the only time in my
life when I wished I weren't a pacifist and a vegetarian and considered buying
a gun. But then I realized it wasn't the dog but the owners and what can you
do about inconsiderate neighbors.

85Nov28 from PAGAN FLAMES
Have your dog shit on their lawn.
I knew a pitbull once that climbed trees! It would chase the cat UP the
tree! I hate cats. I have 3 and only one of them has any sort of
intellegence.

85Nov28 from Black Death
bullshit. that poodle never did any of the afore-mentioned things. poodles are
rad dogs.

85Nov28 from Rainstar
Never heard of a Royal poodle. What does it look like? Personally I have a
fondness for Irish Wolfhounds. A good Wolfhound is a great dog. The best dog I
ever had was a shepard/wolfhound cross. He was raised with us and put up with
a lot more harrasment from three little kids than most dogs would. Smokey was
smarter, braver and generally more fun to be with than any people that I know.

85Nov28 from PAGAN FLAMES
Great. Now, just like half the rooms I've made, people are going to log on
for the first time and say WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN? Of course, we could
kill it and it would come back in 6-8 weeks, just like LET'S ASK LARRY and
SNACKBAR and LECHER SOCIETY.

85Nov28 from V Seifert
I have the synopsis that someone left the last time that question was asked
-- I could upload it if you like...

...

Pagan's Bane?>

85Nov29 from Louis Zeppa in What'n hell's This?>
This is a special room for those who wish to ask Pagan Flames "WHAT IN THE
HELL DOES THAT MEAN?"

85Nov29 from Larry Reznick in What'n hell's This?>
Ok, PF, what in hell does that mean?

85Nov29 from Shadow Walker in What'n hell's This?>
What in hell do you mean, "what in hell does that mean?"

85Nov29 from PAGAN FLAMES in What'n hell's This?>
If I were responsible for my own actions I would have been kicked off this
board long ago.

85Nov29 from JERRY MOORE in What'n hell's This?>

This is no doubt true...

85Nov29 from V Seifert
... but sometimes ethics have to make way for aesthetics!

...

Primates on RBBS's>

85Nov30 from Brenda Daniels
About the best use for a poodle is to wake up the Pit Bull when a burglar
breaks in.

85Nov30 from Jim Deford
L.R. That Royal Poodle must be a Royal pain!!! Dogs, like kids, are a
reflection of their master. So if you have a slobbering dog then wipe your
lips!!!! Of course the exception to the rule is the Poodle. They are retarded
and can't help themselves.

85Nov30 from Rainstar
Ah, that is what i was refering too. I have always known them as standard
poodles. I have s fond memory concerning pit bulls. We had a neighbor who was
extremly proud of the fact that his pit bull would eat cats. my six month old
kitten was ooutside.. the pit bull ran up to hm and d.c. grapped his nose with
one set of claws, and an eye with the other and clawed. that dog ran for the
hills and we never heard anything more about it.

85Dec01 from JERRY MOORE
Unfortunately they DO eat cats! The one we had got several of the
neighborhood strays, although she left ours alone and even played with the
white one on occasion. But then she grew up with them and considered them to
be "family".

85Dec01 from Jim Deford
Most Pit Bulls eat anything that moves.

85Dec01 from Black Death
i give up on you guys... i think poodles are rad, and i'm not a slobbering
person...

...

We're not sure yet.>

85Dec01 from Black Death in Let's Ask Pagan!>
ask pagan what???

85Dec01 from JERRY MOORE in Let's Ask Pagan!>

OK!


Pagan: What?


85Dec01 from Shadow Walker in Let's Ask Pagan!>
I came in here and was told there were 14 messages and that 91 of them were
new. All I have to say to that is...

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS???

85Dec01 from V Seifert in Let's Ask Pagan!>
We're not sure yet. As soon as we find out, we'll let you know.
In the meantime, what difference does it make? Whoopee!

85Dec01 from Nick Rodseth
I don't know what the hell is going on in here!

85Dec02 from PAGAN FLAMES
Using the word "rad" did not help your case.

85Dec02 from V Seifert
I'm not even sure what "rad" really means. I'm not sure I want to,
either...

...

Primates on RBBS's>

85Dec02 from Larry Reznick
As I recall, there are four types of poodles: Toy, Miniature, Standard, and
Royal Standard. It is the Royal Standard that is large.

And, stop slobbering all over the poodles, Jim.

85Dec02 from Shadow Walker
"Rad", I believe, is a contraction of "radical". Which still doesn't help his
case....

85Dec02 from Black Death
it is the slang "VALGOL" or "Val Speak" of the word, which means "neat."

85Dec02 from JERRY MOORE
Cool! Neato! Peachy! Hot! Trippy! Far Out! Sick!
Rude! Bad! Groovy! Awesome! Heavy! Spiffy!

85Dec02 from V Seifert
You left out "Nifty", which is my preferred term.

...

Zoroasterian Flames>

85Dec02 from Polymath in We're not sure yet.>
Join the party! ("Hey! Don't throw that kilo in the hibachi! *WHOOOOF*")

85Dec02 from TREASON in We're not sure yet.>
kilo? what kilo? ok pagan you must have the answer. what the hell is this.?

85Dec02 from PAGAN FLAMES in We're not sure yet.>
Are you kidding? I've never logged on and had this room appear twice under
the same name. I think its great. How many more times can we change the name
of this room? We're up to four, that's got to be a record.

85Dec02 from Larry Reznick in We're not sure yet.>
Jerry, at the rate this is going, all of the rooms are going to have to be
private to keep from scaring off the newcomers.

85Dec02 from Shadow Walker in We're not sure yet.>
Gee, this room needs a new name. How about something like "Another name for
Pagan"?

You know, I think Pagan does need another name. How about Gzornenplatz?

"Gzornenplatz Flames" Nope. Just doesn't quite have the right ring to
it.

85Dec02 from Black Death in We're not sure yet.>
Let's ask BD!>

85Dec02 from PAGAN FLAMES in We're not sure yet.>
How about Zoroaster? Zoroasterian Flames, not to bad, especially if your from
Iran or Iraq.

85Dec02 from Jim Deford in We're not sure yet.>
Well, I don't know what the hell is going on anymore than anyone else does.
But if we take all this and light it with the Zoroasterian Flames (What the
HELL is that?) and smoke it I bet we will soon find out!!!!!








Hey Jerry!!!!

*POOF*


...

85Dec09 from V Seifert
Some of you may have noticed that DDBBS has been exhibiting some of the
caracteristics of life lately: it has been irritable and unpredictable.
Programs aren't supposed to do that.
It occurred to Jerry and myself that it is JUST possible that DDBBS, having
gotten a lot of attention, input, and TLC, has joined the ranks of the
living... at a very low level, about that of a retarded cockroach, but
alive.
Would anyone care to share their views on arrtificial intelligence in
general and instances of DDBBS's possible vitality in particular?

85Dec09 from 'lil' alice
What did he say? wiggle,jiggle
'lil' alice

85Dec09 from Louis Zeppa
Don't ask him to repeat it. But I suspect he and Jerry were sharing the DTs
and that's what really happened to the old modem -- they thought it was a
spider and they smacked it when it moved.

...

85Dec09 from Louis Zeppa
To some of us, 5'3" is tall -- short people power.

...

86Mar25 from PAGAN FLAMES
Yes, it was a pleasure meeting me I'm sure.

86Mar25 from shawn kemp
not for us it wasn't!

...

86Apr20 from PAGAN FLAMES
Just saw something rather wierd in the caller log. It seems that I call
right after Fossil Freak calls. Not once, not twice, but 5 times by my count,
and it would have been 6 if Simon Le Bon hadn't horned his way in between us
one time.

Wierd.
^^^^^^


86Apr21 from Fossil Freak
Pagan, three people got in between us this time...
Some people don't have enough sense to be out enjoying the sunshine instead
of calling DDBBS, that's what it is..
(Or, perhaps, we're the same person...)

86Apr21 from PAGAN FLAMES
Well, if we are the same person, then did one hell of a job getting people to
beleive we were two different people at the last mupt.

86Apr22 from Jerry Moore
PF & FF with 3 people between 'em? I'm *SHOCKED!*

86Apr22 from Fossil Freak
...sort of a quality sandwich with the good stuff on the outside.

86Apr27 from Fossil Freak
THAT PROVES IT!!! Pagan and I *ARE* really the same person. (You've never
seen us together, right? (Jerry, it was all an illusion!))

86Apr27 from PAGAN FLAMES
I must confess. I have been putting you all on. I am actually none other
than Wayland M. Minot on a secret government mission.

86Apr27 from Fossil Freak
..And so am I...

86May05 from Fossil Freak
My guess, Pagan, is that Gerhard is getting suspicious that Vince is one of
us (he isn't) and figures the omnipresent m's I was griping about last time
around belonged on the message.

86May05 from PAGAN FLAMES
That's really odd, because I seem to have a note written to myself that
Gerhard is also one of my personas on three different bbses. Now, I don't
know when I log in as him, I guess I log on in my sleep.

86May05 from Fossil Freak
No, I'm too deeply asleep to do that...

...

86May26 from Fossil Freak
Ahhhh.... that feels good... (logging on here, I mean...)

86May26 from LsiSsi
Nice to have DDBBS back...

86May26 from PAGAN FLAMES
That could be very perverted if you read that message wrong, FF.

(but it took Andy to point it out! He's afraid of writing such things. The
coward.)

86May27 from Fossil Freak
I find it hard to believe that you didn't see every double meaning there ever
was, Pagan... and blaming poor innocent sweet little Andy, too. Shame on
you!

86May27 from PAGAN FLAMES
I'm surprised you haven't written every double meaning there is.

And let me tell you about poor, innocent, sweet little Andy! They don't
call him the man from Rubbermaid for nothing.

...

86May28 from PAGAN FLAMES
I started gaming with a tightly knit group of folks who had very determined
ideas about gaming. They are the ones who got me into RQ. They are the ones
who are responsible for many of my ideas about fantasy role-playing. Now,
I've been looking at these little dialogues some games have which show what a
"typical" gaming night was like. It looks somethig like this:

"So let's introduce the characters," the GM says.

"This is Saurik Runeblade. He's not afraid of any man alive. He has a
finely jeweled bastard sword and gold leaf around his armor."
"This is Magyar Bonebreaker. He is a sage from Pavis. He is an initiate
of Lhankor Mhy and he likes to collect botanical specimins."
"This is Hrothgar Mitgum. She is a viking type priestess/elf of
Aldryami. She's 90% in lute playing."
"Does she play on shipboard," the GM askes.
"Yes."
"The sailors gather around and they kind of begin chanting with her."
"What's the temperature like," Magyar askes.
"Cool breeze from the northwest."
"The wind should be from the east! Unless it's Myarcuss the wizard from
Orr," Saurik says.
"He's dead," the elf reminds him.
"The never found the body."


Does the above sound familiar? Hmmm. It doesn't to me. But then, my own
interests differ. A typical gaming session for me was something like--

"All right, who's in," the Gm asked.
"Corky Dude."
"Oh for christ's sake, Mike. Do you have to run Corky Dude?"
"Yes."
"I'm running Virginia Dare" Ed said.
"Why aren't you running Habeus Corpus," the GM asked.
"Virginia raped him with a dagger and then slit his throat a month ago.
See? She has his ring."
"I'm running the three bean circus," I say.
"No," somebody would groan.
I had Professor Phineas T. Hobsbawm, a travelling medicine man, and
Bucolic Buffalo, an indian who was 50% with a great hammer, and some shaman
who refused to tell anyone his name.
"All right, now where were we?"
"We were down in the sewers weren't we?"
"Yeah," the Gm says, "all right, now you killed the three slimedogs didn't
you?"
"Yeah."
"You," he pointed to me, "you're in front, right?"
"Yeah."
"You slip and fall into the wall, and this huge glop of feces splatters
onto your cap.
"I'm not wearing a helmet," I remind him.
"Oh."



You get the idea.

----------------------
more to come.



Well, look at that - proof you existed, even in 1985!

Wed Dec 31 1969 17:00:00 MST from

 

85Aug31 from Otto Roboto
I think Omni is down so much because Gary is working on it (and can't fix it.)